Dilemma, should Dad still be driving?

But not everyone's in a position to be able to up-sticks and move to a more convenient location, for various reasons.

At what age should we start thinking 'hmm, I may not be able to drive when I'm in my 80s so better check out the sheltered accommodation now...' 40s, 50s?

jane10- we did the same. When we moved here 6 years ago nearly, we chose a location in the countryside but with excellent public transport- for that very reason. My dad continued to drive into his mid 90s, and although very fit and of sound mind- had become a menace on the roads. He did have the sense to limit his driving to local routes and never drove at night- but even so. It worried us (and the local population) to bits, and it took quite a serious accident (no-one injured thank goodness) for him to accept it was time to give up driving. We have sworn to our children that we would use public transport as soon as we realise, or are made to realise- that the time has come. My mum had a minor stroke when driving in her mid 80s and ended up in a ditch, and gave up her licence the next day- despite being a brilliant driver in the past.

We have a good bus service to the next large village in Switzerland and the next large town in France- where we can hop on the train to the whole of Europe.

The point is Ana- is that if you take the right steps at the right time (in time) then you can avoid sheltered accommodation. My parents refused to adapt their home or to get used to public transport, etc- and when the time came, there was absolutely no choice but to go into an OAP home. We are still young and active and fit- but are sensibly planning ahead, for us- as WE DO NOT WANT TO GO INTO OAP home, and also for our children- I do not wish my daughters to be squeezed into the 'teenagers + elderly parents' connandrum, as we were.

But what is the right step at the right time? DH and I have had to step in and cope 5 times when elderly relatives hit a crisis. All were living in sensible suitable accommodation, close to amenities, in situations where they did not need a car. 2 acute terminal illnesses, 2 strokes and 1 with severe depression. None of these could be foreseen. In none could pro-active changes in living circumstances have done anything to avert the crisis or made it easier to deal with.

The one proactive action that would have helped would have been if all had given someone powers of attorney. Our greatest problems dealing with these crises arose from dealing with the affairs of the two who had not given anyone powers of attorney to deal with their affairs when they were incapacitated.

Well of course- it is hard to know. Shame you've had to deal with those crises as it does take a toll. With my parents, I had to ask for time off so many times to come and deal with a crisis- and dad just refused to take any steps to ensure they could stay at home as long as poss- always saying it was fine, he could cope, and 'we will see later'. I tried again and again, gently and quielty, to explain that spening a bit of money on adapting the house and mainly the bathroom, would save 100000s in the long term, but mainly allow them to stay at home and cared for in their own home- but he wouldn't listen. And of course, what had to happen, happened- and then there was no choice. He hated being in the OAP home... and it could have so easily been avoided with a bit of advance organisation and a little money spent.

So we are certainly looking ahead all the time- to ensure we never put our daughters through all the pain and angst and worry- and to make sure we have a shower downstairs, etc. They made us promise we would go back to the UK to be near them 'if ever'- and we would to make their life easier. But I would not expect them to look after us apart from visiting.

Whatever happens to us, how ever sensible and organised we are, we should all face up to the fact that are going will cause our children 'pain, angst and worry.'

It is one of the comfortable delusions of our generation of older people that we think we can, if we get the organisation right, reduce our end to a quick disappearance act that causes no-one any problems and everybody else marches on with barely a ripple on the surface of their lives. It won't be like that.

As I said my DF lived a life of complete independence until his last illness at the age of 92; one week feeling unwell at home, 3 days with me and then 2 months in my local hospital until he died. It really couldn't have been easier and less hassle, but the amount of pain angst and worry it caused me was immense and I wouldn't have given up a second of it.

Last week a man went to Dignitas under his own steam to be put down before his illness made him quadriplegic. All done under his own steam, no trouble to his family, everything neatly set up. Have his family returned home given a big sigh and got back to life as normal? Everything I have read suggest that they are distressed, grieving, in pain, and struggling to understand their father's decision and missing him, missing him so much.

The hands over ears and singing la la la attitude has much to be recommended. Better than believing that you have any control over what will happen at the end or control over how your children will react and deal with it.

No, of course- we can't plan for everything. And whatever happens, of course our daughters and grandchildren will be distraught. But I truly feel it is our duty to try and minimise the worry for them by taking positive steps in the right direction. Including stopping driving if and when it is clear things are not right. That is only fair to them, I feel- especially as we have made the decision to live abroad.

The 'putting down comment' is truly out of order and totally insensitive- words fail me.

I am so glad I live in a country where the choice will be mine- if ever the time comes. And I certainly would not want my children to have to care for me physically if ever this is required- it would never be their job to wipe my nether regions and wash me- never. Much better left to caring professionals.

It is a word I would use for my own actions or of anyone dear to me choosing that method of death ... or should I use a euphemism like 'passed away'. Death is death however much people try to hide behind all kinds of curtains and when it comes it is often undignified and unpleasant. I have seen enough to be quite clear that that is probably what my death will be like, so I have accepted reality and in the meanwhile I am concentrating on all I have that makes life good.

Of course death is death. But would you say of someone who choose to die, that s/he 'has put her/himself down'?

Death is indeed death- and choosing to die with dignity at a time of once choosing due to terrible suffering has nothing to do with being 'put down'- which would mean murder by someone else.

Blimey how have we moved from giving up driving to giving up life itself?!

One of my close friends talked recently about her mother's death. The family have lived in the Netherlands for two generations but are originally Chinese. The mother was 90 and increasingly immobile and in pain because of arthritis and other health problems. She decided over the past couple of years that she'd had enough, so arranged her own death at a time of her choosing. Her loving family gathered and were all with her as she died.

I find the term 'put down' both distressing and offensive to people who make this choice. I'm sure FlicketyB is right and that the family of the man who went to Dignitas are missing him and struggling with his death. I felt the same when my mother died because her death was not what she would have chosen, whereas my friends mother did chose the manner and time of her departure from this world. I understand that isn't a path everyone would choose but I do believe it's wrong to criticise or express anger towards those who do so.

From all accounts Jeffrey Spector had the full support of his family during and after he'd made his decision to go to Dignitas.

Of course they're grieving now, it's only natural, but to imply that he did it all on his own without the knowledge of his family is misleading.

I wasn't aware that anyone implied that.

See FlicketyB's post of 12.28 today.