Is wolf-whistling a sex crime?

Just when you think the level of debate can't sink any further......

My post was pretty high up the scale of intelligence compared to some of the vitriolic posts earlier I thought [sigh]

Yawn yawn yawn

I also found some of pompa's remarks/observations a bit patronising and somewhat sleazy but, rather than "rock the boat" further, I was inclined to take trisher's approach and ignore them. However, on reflection, perhaps that was a bit of a cop-out on my part and I quite admire GrannyTwice's determination not to just "let things go" - as women so often tend to do.

As to the outrage about trisher describing pompa as "an old geezer fantasizing", that is, in essence, what he was saying about himself wasn't it?

Given there was already quite a heated debate about what is acceptable male behaviour, it is not surprising that pompa's remarks provoked a reaction from some quarters. Others felt that the way in which pompa was subsequently criticised was unacceptable. However, whatever a person's view on that might be, pompa has received a great deal of support from the majority of Gransnetters so I don't understand why he felt the need to leave the site.

Ana There most certainly was a comment that Gransnet seemed to contain a number of "man haters", and it was suggested that the reason for this might be that they were lesbians. I think this post was deleted.

You say:

"Why should the majority of Gransetters (as it seems to be now) be dictated to by the few who see the bad in all men and none of the good?"

"The majority" is quite at liberty to - and indeed do - express their own strongly held views so in what way are they being "dictated to"? Also, what makes you conclude that those whose opinions are different from your own on this particular issue "see the bad in all men"?

As this thread seems to me to have degenerated into a shouting match I wasn't going to post again, but I have been thinking about bags's question – why did this young woman wait an entire month (quite a long time) to report her concerns to anyone, whether police or management of the building site. I would guess that she, quite reasonably, thought that if she simply ignored this loutish behaviour, the perpetrators would become bored and it would cease. However, it didn't and, because it didn't, it must have seemed more threatening and disturbing. Then it was followed by rather more threatening behaviour which probably triggered a degree of panic, the level of which might not have been totally justified. So she acted because she had no idea what might come next.

Interesting how some people take personally calm, general remarks aimed at anyone who might read the thread. I didn't accuse you of anything, trisher. I made a general point about playing the ball not the man in any online discussion.

The following comment is a bit more focussed than that but still not directed at you, trisher.

In my opinion, those who objected most strongly to pompa's posts did so very rudely so, also in my opinion, it's good if their posts were deleted. I disliked those posts much more than anything pompa said. And not for the first time. I've no objection to their expressing their objections. It was the way it was done that I found revolting. I did say this earlier in a different way.

I agree, absent. I've come to a similar conclusion after pondering on that question.

I was not around last evening.

This all ties in with my post saying upthread that I have not been able to work out what is a personal attack and what isnt.

There is a system that means that you can use words in certain ways which means a post is not deemed as personal and is therefore allowed to stand.
My guess is that many posters on mumsnet are using the same way of saying things.
There are probably a number of certain such phrases.

Personally, I dont think that the phrases should be allowed.

Thatbags- I thought I only had one-off my posts deleted? The other deletion was the lesbian one from a pompa supporter as I read it. Sorry you find my posts revolting. I find sexist and sleaze more than revolting and as I've said repeatedly, the most truly revolting aspects of this thread were the outrageous criticisms of Poppy and the support for Pompa . I also think in terms of vitriol I've received my fair share on this thread ( as have some others). even you thatbags on reflection are taking a slightly different view on Poppy - well some of us got there much quicker

I am guessing that gransnet and mumsnet are happy with the rules as they stand, and presumably how they have stood for a number of years.
Therefore I guess, it is up to the rest of us to learn how to phrase things and get away with all sorts. It also means that some people who are not so clever with words, have to be more careful than others. Which is not a level playing field.

I think it is worth repeating again, that I dont think phrases of that nature should be allowed.
But I guess that both sites are being moderated in this way, and will carry on so.

I think it might be fair to say at this point, that posters come from all sorts of backgrounds. And, I think that it is safe to say that we all have our trigger points on certain issues.

I would say though, that in those cases, we have to be careful that we dont sweep things up too hastily, or with too broad a brush. To not just immediately see things, which on closer inspection were not meant how we think they are meant.

You are mistaken, GT. My view on Poppy and on what happened to her and the people who did it is the same now as it was at the beginning. Pondering on the question of why she didn't say anything sooner than she did has brought me to a conculsion. I've no idea if that conclusion is correct but that hasn't affected how I feel about the whole thing.

I think I understand how you feel about pompa's remarks. I still think your post was very rude, however much you hate what he said. It is not the first time I've thought a post of yours rude. It has nothing to do with the subject matter. You've said yourself that you are nicer in real life than you are on here. I'm glad about that.

what is a bodyline testmatch? I have googled and dont understand.

I like djs idea of asking if a post is a personal attack. Since it now appears to have got to complicated for most posters to know what is in the rules and what isnt.

Thatbags - your last sentence was beyond pathetic. And the point I was making about yours ( and others) comments on Poppy was about the remarks many of you made as to why she didn't do anything sooner. I think what I found revolting ( to coin a phrase) was a tendency to criticise her rather than look for more sympathetic explanations. And as for my posts being rude -I'm at the receiving end of plenty of those - maybe in some cases I'm just a bit more straightforward than others. Are you as up yourself in RL as you appear to be so often on here?

Part of the problem is that with the written word you don't get the tone and the body language and so it is very easy to misinterpret things.
I have a problem with very literal people because I suddenly become aware of how much I say 'tongue in cheek' and am non plussed when they take it seriously.

You clearly didn't read what I wrote about that wondering, GT. It was not a criticism.There was no blame implied or even thought of. I just wondered. I'm at a loss to understand what you find revolting about it when people who work with abuse victims wonder the same thing and do research into the issue to find out, in order to be better able to help those abused. It is not about blaming the victim at all. I think you have completely misunderstood. I also think you misunderstood pompa's remarks but that is your prerogative.

Yes, I have as much self-respect in real life as I do on here.

I have realised that we think that everyone knows pompa and his posts. But even a poster who posts as often as he does, is not regualarly read by all posters.
A lot of posters read him within that context, but not all posters "know" him well enough for that.

People read posts from their own perspective- it can be quite different from the intention of the poster.

I only came across pompa on this thread. However, I am not sure that we should be judging people from different threads because it isn't really relevant.

In retrospect, I was uncomfortable with the recent pics of the women in bikinis, especially the one who looked as though she had a bit of binding tape going up her whatsit. I didn't express my disquiet though, I probably even made a jokey remark.

We recently had a thread about the difference in attitude to men between gransnet and mumsnet. I wonder if our generation of women are sometimes more tolerant than we should be of untoward male behaviour. Times change!

Who is making the rules on how tolerant we should be petallus? Surely we are as tolerant as we feel! Our feelings are probably dictated by our experiences and I count myself lucky not to have experiences which make me think all men are bad!

G2 - there is 'straightforward' and 'rude and dismissive of anyone else's opinion/beliefs' -
I am sure most of use know where to draw the line

to get back to the original OP - wolf whistling is not a sex crime, confrontation and aggressive behaviour is.

kittylester I think women of our generation have, very generally speaking, different attitudes to certain male behaviour than women of a younger generation. This is probably because of the times we grew up in. Male groping, sexism, jokes about mothers-in-law and the good old double standard regarding sexual behaviour were all the norm forty or fifty years ago.

Anyway, you are over-simplifying. Objecting to some aspects of male behaviour is not the same thing as saying all men are bad (that would be ridiculous).

No, not judging.
But context helps in everything?
I am probably not expressing myself very well.

Elegran post friday 22.32pm expresses it much better than I can.

It is ridiculous petallus but there seems to be an awful lot of intolerance about! That is not a personal comment but a very general one!

Intolerance in itself is not always bad though. Things that we put up with forty or fifty years ago (racism, sexism, domestic violence, child abuse etc.) are no longer tolerated.

In that respect I approve of intolerance.