Re: sisterly affection....don't make me laugh

vampireq I wonder what would happen, if your long suffering and very loving dh gave you an ultimatum "Your mum or me"?
Do you think that would make you feel strong enough to put his needs and yours, first?
I do know what it's like to be afraid to stand up to someone but it's very liberating when you do.

I very much doubt that vq has anything to forgive herself for.
But children often think they are responsible for things that they are not responsible for.

soontobe if anyone needs to write letters it is Vampirequeen's mother not VQ. She had nothing to forgive herself for. It is her mother who is behaving in an awful and manipulate way.

I can really sympathise with you Vampirequeen. At my eldest daughter's wedding, my sister and her husband had a huge row at the reception to the absolute embarrassment to me my OH and my daughters. Argh!! A year later it was my youngest daughter's wedding and I begged her not to invite my sister, but she felt she should. 'On your head be it' I said.
My sister promised me she and her husband would 'behave' as the row was fuelled by too much alcohol. So she said they wouldn't drink too much. Well they did and the same thing happened. We had to ask them to leave and it caused my daughter and I to argue. Thankfully it didn't last long and we had a great day. But since then I haven't spoken to my sister. I was so upset and angry with her. Still am when I think about it.

I have just been watching the end of the film Saving Mr Banks. I dont know if you have seen it.
In it, the writer of the film has to forgive herself for things she thinks she did wrong or felt she may have done wrong, in her childhood.

Do you feel anything like that[you alluded to a complicated childhood]

Exactly! - maybe that is what is really meant by the "selfish gene"! My FIL went on for ever, and they don't come more selfish than he was!!

Following on from Mishap - 10 years' ago a friend had an extremely manipulative and demanding mother, aged 89, who was pandered to because she was obviously near the end and no-one wanted to upset her - understandable given her age.

She is now 99 and just as bad!

Very true, Mishap. My mother was very demanding but I had her under control A friend of mine had the same problem and used to say, "They'll see us out because they'll wear us out"

You have to know when to say enough's enough and it doesn't mean you have a heart of stone.

Bit of both maybe - she's certainly got you well trained!

How do you know she's only got few more years? - self-centred people tend to go on for ever in my experience! As a hospital SW I was once called to see a lady on the ward who was 107 and a half - she wanted to talk to me about her daughter (80 odd) who she thought was "getting into bad company." Her definition of bad company was the DD wanting to go to the WI once a week! She got short shrift from me I am afraid!

Let this be a warning to you!!

Once this weekend is over things will return to normal. She's getting on now and tbh I doubt anything would change her. I know I'm being a doormat but I can't bear the thought of confrontation and upset with her. She only has a few more years left so why rock the boat.

I guess I'm either extremely kind and understanding or very well conditioned. I'd like to think it was the first but it's probably the latter

Oh mothers! - they f**k you up good and proper don't they?

If you can gently and slowly start to stand up for YOUR best interests now and again it may, as others have said, be good for you and others (Mum, DH etc.).

Try the drip drip approach maybe? Just occasionally not be available and see how it feels.

I have got to say vq anyone that put me in an intolerable situation would be the first and last time I would allow that to happen. No one else is responsible for running your life, that is your job.

I hope the advice you have received on this thread helps you to work towards being more assertive in dealing with your mum and the virtual vq becomes a reality.

PS to previous message:

Yes, VQ as you say, its all too easy to sound jolly and positive online, the virtual me. When I reread the message above I realised I had left out the bit that said how very very difficult it was to stand up to my mum. But I did it eventually - and my life got better too.

I took out a line of my message before I posted it. Here it is:

"The first time I stood up to my mother I went out of the room into the bathroom and fainted. The second time, some time later, I wrote her a letter - - - "

VQ I am very cheered by your last sentence One thing I've definitely learned over the last few weeks is that I'm not a failure as a daughter and sister. I've been put in intolerable positions and I'm still standing

After wanting my mother's approval (and not getting it) all my life until I was in my late 30's, eventually I stood up to her. Like you, VQ, I had a sister who was the golden one. She could do nothing wrong. I could do nothing right, and when I did succeed in life, I only received grudging approval, or worse still, an embarrassed silence if I had done something better than my (slightly older) sister.

So I wrote her a letter, much easier for me than speaking to her face to face. I said that I felt she did not agree with the way I was living my life and that because of this I did not intend to keep in close touch (weekly phone call, regular letters).

In fact, and completely unexpectedly, VQ, and this is why I am posting this message, I think it did my mother a power of good.

She seemed to blossom, she started to become more sociable, getting involved with village affairs, starting a study programme.

This may have had nothing to do with the shift in our relationship, but I feel that the two were connected. It was as if, in freeing myself, I had freed her also.

We kept in touch but much less frequently.

At her funeral, some years later, I cried. But I cried, not with a sense of loss and grief, but with a sense of relief - that I would no longer have to try and please her.

So, VQ, I understand how deeply these emotional tangles go. But I agree with everyone else who has posted. And I think you may be the most emotionally stable person out of the three of you, even though you are struggling. Because they are struggling just as much if not more so. Try Googling Toxic Families - I read a book on the subject some years ago and it was very helpful.

I agree that t is sad to hear that you are pleased to have an excuse to get out of something that you would have loved! Sounds pretty cock-eyed!

Perhaps a bit of the virtual VQ will eventually filter over into the flesh and blood one - let us hope so!

We have this rosy image about families and a think that we're the only ones who don't have them. This makes us feel that we have somehow failed but I've come to the conclusion that these perfect families are very few and far between. I think families come on a sliding scale with the very few perfects at the top, a huge blob of families who fall out and make up but are always there for each other between three quarters and one quarter way down and finally that bottom lot where my family fit in.

One thing I've definitely learned over the last few weeks is that I'm not a failure as a daughter and sister. I've been put in intolerable positions and I'm still standing.

I've got 2 sisters a brother & a son. Who helped me when I moved house? None of them! I'm 64 on my own My 2 younger sisters & niece are very close always in contact. I'm never included. Its refreshing to hear about other people & their families & the problems they have with relationships. I thought it was just me. You think there must be something wrong with you. I also suffer with depression. It is'nt me its them. Its hard though I feel very alone at times. They say they're always there for me but its just words. I hope things work out for you & your family & that you have a lovely Christmas.

I'm afraid it's like I said on another thread. There is a real life me who is a guilt ridden, indecisive wuss and the confident virtual me. That's why I'm so comfortable in the virtual world. It's the only place I can be the confident me.

Oh dear VQ it is so very sad that you are so pleased that you have not had to make the decision and will be missing out on a lovely time with your family.

it would be good if your DH could make some decisions fro you re. your Mother and tell her what you will be doing. After all she doesn't accept him any way so nothing to loose there. He must have the patience of a saint.

Yay the decision has been taken out of my hands . DH has agreed to help a friend move a washing machine on Saturday evening so we can't go away for the weekend.

Such a relief. You may have noticed I'm not very good at making decisions

As I have said before, I know exactly how you feel. You don't want to upset her, even though she doesn't worry about upsetting you. My mother is exactly the same - one of the times I visited her in Australia I was there for 4 weeks and spent EVERY day sitting in the nursing home with her. She rarely made conversation with me and would often read a book, but if I tried to leave she would put the book down and I would have to stay. After 3 weeks one of the carers said how lucky she was that I came to see her every day and she replied that it was no more than I ought to do!

I think your mother is the same, so nothing you do will be right. I think you should go away with your lovely DH and see your GC. You never know she may even appreciate you more when you get back!

Some good posts, especially elegran, agus and merlotgran.

You have been conditioned to feel guilty and you feel that you are going to feel guilty whatever you choose to do this weekend. However, perhaps now is the time to try to break out of the circle of guilt and do what you would like to do for a change.

Time to go off and enjoy yourself for a change. It doesn't sound as if your DM is so frail that she can't look after herself, if she does need someone could a friend or neighbour pop in to make sure she is OK? Your sister has gone back to her life on the other side of the worl, your mother is going to miss her, of course, but I have seen this happen before. The child who lives far away is wonderful and the one who lives nearby is taken for granted.

I do hope you go away and have a lovely weekend with the children, they will cheer you up. You know when you phone your mother to see if she is OK that she will be difficult, just tell her that you are only away for a couple of days and you will pop in to see her as soon as you are home again.

I get the impression Mishap that vq does get something from seeing her mum, which keeps her going to see her.
It could be only the hope that keeps her motivated to see her. But hope is powerful.

or is it all hassle.
Does she show you love or compassion at all?