Re: sisterly affection....don't make me laugh

soontobe VQ has felt hurt for the whole of her sister's visit. Her Mum has not noticed, has not even asked VQ's husband in to where the family had their lunch, instead left him waiting for her outside. She seems good at voicing HER hurts loudly while ignoring VQ's

VQ has been ill. She has learnt that she needs to put herself and her immediate family first, or she will relapse back into lack of confidence and depression. SHE has a need for consideration too, and going away for a couple of days this weekend is exactly what she should be doing.

Her mother will be OK for a few days on her own. She is not frail.

Go for it, VQ Have a nice time in your caravan, with the children. Phone your mum, and be sure to tell her how much you are enjoying your little spell away, but don't feel you must be there in person. She has her memories of your sister's visit to go over to stop her feeling deserted. Tell her that if she complains - and add that you don't have such rosy memories of it, if you can be brave enough. Surely she knows how you were treated? If she does, she might understand your need for a quiet healing weekend.

Just thinking about this vq. Your mum is upset that your dear sister is doing her own thing and flying off back to Australia. Quite a comparison to you not being there for two days really

She will survive and maybe even appreciate the fact that you are still there for her.

Go and enjoy making happy memories with your DGC and DH.

I was sort of asking how her mum behaves when her mum gets hurt. Does she shout etc?
And I was wondering how vq feels when this happens.
I was wondering how her mum manipulates her I suppose.

Some mothers are experts in the field of playing one sibling off against another,*vq*. She will be fine so put yourself first and don't rise to any grumbles about you being away.

If you miss out on having fun with your DGCs you won't get the time back.

Be strong.

I know I'm a wuss but no matter how badly she hurts me I can't bring myself to hurt her. She won't have missed me whilst my sister was here but she will seriously miss my sister. I just can't leave her alone on the first weekend.

I presume you get some comfort from being with her too?

You will not be hurting her if you go - but you will deprive yourself and your supportive DH from the fun of Christmas activities with the GC - a chance that will not come again.

Offer to take Mum with you both in the caravan! - I am sure she will not want that; and then the decision to be left alone will have been hers.

It's not about being a "wuss" but about pandering to and encouraging your Mum's manipulative behaviour, which is good for neither you, your DH, your DD, your DGD or indeed for her.

Let her "seriously miss" your sister - you will seriously miss out if you do not take this opportunity that is being offered.

At what point will it be the right one to break out of this pathological cycle? - maybe it might be a turning point for an improvement in your own health - could this be the trigger that you need to move forward from patterns of a lifetime that have brought you no joy and injured your well-being? There has to be a time that this happens or you will be like this till Mum dies. Only you can choose the moment - this seems like as good a one as any, when you have spent the last couple of weeks being side-lined and insulted with the collusion of your Mum.

Can you enlist your DD to say to Mum that she desperately wants you to be there and that she is SURE that there will be no objection?

or is it all hassle.
Does she show you love or compassion at all?

I get the impression Mishap that vq does get something from seeing her mum, which keeps her going to see her.
It could be only the hope that keeps her motivated to see her. But hope is powerful.

Some good posts, especially elegran, agus and merlotgran.

You have been conditioned to feel guilty and you feel that you are going to feel guilty whatever you choose to do this weekend. However, perhaps now is the time to try to break out of the circle of guilt and do what you would like to do for a change.

Time to go off and enjoy yourself for a change. It doesn't sound as if your DM is so frail that she can't look after herself, if she does need someone could a friend or neighbour pop in to make sure she is OK? Your sister has gone back to her life on the other side of the worl, your mother is going to miss her, of course, but I have seen this happen before. The child who lives far away is wonderful and the one who lives nearby is taken for granted.

I do hope you go away and have a lovely weekend with the children, they will cheer you up. You know when you phone your mother to see if she is OK that she will be difficult, just tell her that you are only away for a couple of days and you will pop in to see her as soon as you are home again.

As I have said before, I know exactly how you feel. You don't want to upset her, even though she doesn't worry about upsetting you. My mother is exactly the same - one of the times I visited her in Australia I was there for 4 weeks and spent EVERY day sitting in the nursing home with her. She rarely made conversation with me and would often read a book, but if I tried to leave she would put the book down and I would have to stay. After 3 weeks one of the carers said how lucky she was that I came to see her every day and she replied that it was no more than I ought to do!

I think your mother is the same, so nothing you do will be right. I think you should go away with your lovely DH and see your GC. You never know she may even appreciate you more when you get back!

Yay the decision has been taken out of my hands . DH has agreed to help a friend move a washing machine on Saturday evening so we can't go away for the weekend.

Such a relief. You may have noticed I'm not very good at making decisions

Oh dear VQ it is so very sad that you are so pleased that you have not had to make the decision and will be missing out on a lovely time with your family.

it would be good if your DH could make some decisions fro you re. your Mother and tell her what you will be doing. After all she doesn't accept him any way so nothing to loose there. He must have the patience of a saint.

I'm afraid it's like I said on another thread. There is a real life me who is a guilt ridden, indecisive wuss and the confident virtual me. That's why I'm so comfortable in the virtual world. It's the only place I can be the confident me.

I've got 2 sisters a brother & a son. Who helped me when I moved house? None of them! I'm 64 on my own My 2 younger sisters & niece are very close always in contact. I'm never included. Its refreshing to hear about other people & their families & the problems they have with relationships. I thought it was just me. You think there must be something wrong with you. I also suffer with depression. It is'nt me its them. Its hard though I feel very alone at times. They say they're always there for me but its just words. I hope things work out for you & your family & that you have a lovely Christmas.

We have this rosy image about families and a think that we're the only ones who don't have them. This makes us feel that we have somehow failed but I've come to the conclusion that these perfect families are very few and far between. I think families come on a sliding scale with the very few perfects at the top, a huge blob of families who fall out and make up but are always there for each other between three quarters and one quarter way down and finally that bottom lot where my family fit in.

One thing I've definitely learned over the last few weeks is that I'm not a failure as a daughter and sister. I've been put in intolerable positions and I'm still standing.

I agree that t is sad to hear that you are pleased to have an excuse to get out of something that you would have loved! Sounds pretty cock-eyed!

Perhaps a bit of the virtual VQ will eventually filter over into the flesh and blood one - let us hope so!

After wanting my mother's approval (and not getting it) all my life until I was in my late 30's, eventually I stood up to her. Like you, VQ, I had a sister who was the golden one. She could do nothing wrong. I could do nothing right, and when I did succeed in life, I only received grudging approval, or worse still, an embarrassed silence if I had done something better than my (slightly older) sister.

So I wrote her a letter, much easier for me than speaking to her face to face. I said that I felt she did not agree with the way I was living my life and that because of this I did not intend to keep in close touch (weekly phone call, regular letters).

In fact, and completely unexpectedly, VQ, and this is why I am posting this message, I think it did my mother a power of good.

She seemed to blossom, she started to become more sociable, getting involved with village affairs, starting a study programme.

This may have had nothing to do with the shift in our relationship, but I feel that the two were connected. It was as if, in freeing myself, I had freed her also.

We kept in touch but much less frequently.

At her funeral, some years later, I cried. But I cried, not with a sense of loss and grief, but with a sense of relief - that I would no longer have to try and please her.

So, VQ, I understand how deeply these emotional tangles go. But I agree with everyone else who has posted. And I think you may be the most emotionally stable person out of the three of you, even though you are struggling. Because they are struggling just as much if not more so. Try Googling Toxic Families - I read a book on the subject some years ago and it was very helpful.

VQ I am very cheered by your last sentence One thing I've definitely learned over the last few weeks is that I'm not a failure as a daughter and sister. I've been put in intolerable positions and I'm still standing

PS to previous message:

Yes, VQ as you say, its all too easy to sound jolly and positive online, the virtual me. When I reread the message above I realised I had left out the bit that said how very very difficult it was to stand up to my mum. But I did it eventually - and my life got better too.

I took out a line of my message before I posted it. Here it is:

"The first time I stood up to my mother I went out of the room into the bathroom and fainted. The second time, some time later, I wrote her a letter - - - "

I have got to say vq anyone that put me in an intolerable situation would be the first and last time I would allow that to happen. No one else is responsible for running your life, that is your job.

I hope the advice you have received on this thread helps you to work towards being more assertive in dealing with your mum and the virtual vq becomes a reality.

Oh mothers! - they f**k you up good and proper don't they?

If you can gently and slowly start to stand up for YOUR best interests now and again it may, as others have said, be good for you and others (Mum, DH etc.).

Try the drip drip approach maybe? Just occasionally not be available and see how it feels.

Once this weekend is over things will return to normal. She's getting on now and tbh I doubt anything would change her. I know I'm being a doormat but I can't bear the thought of confrontation and upset with her. She only has a few more years left so why rock the boat.

I guess I'm either extremely kind and understanding or very well conditioned. I'd like to think it was the first but it's probably the latter

Bit of both maybe - she's certainly got you well trained!

How do you know she's only got few more years? - self-centred people tend to go on for ever in my experience! As a hospital SW I was once called to see a lady on the ward who was 107 and a half - she wanted to talk to me about her daughter (80 odd) who she thought was "getting into bad company." Her definition of bad company was the DD wanting to go to the WI once a week! She got short shrift from me I am afraid!

Let this be a warning to you!!

Very true, Mishap. My mother was very demanding but I had her under control A friend of mine had the same problem and used to say, "They'll see us out because they'll wear us out"

You have to know when to say enough's enough and it doesn't mean you have a heart of stone.