Why not just be a humanist?

Maybe it's because women have had a hard time for a long time. Maybe they [we] have had to shout to have our voices heard.

Women sure have had the short straw for many years, this has largely improved, perhaps not perfect yet, but a huge improvement.
However like so many of these things, overreaction takes place.
The talk about needing more women in parliament for instance, ot seems that there is a group the think there should be a more representative number in power. Rubbish ! -- we should have the right people in the right jobs regardless of sex and they should be paid what they are worth regardless of sex (or in the case of MP's 200% more than they are worth )

The reason women aren't in senior position is that historically they haven't had the opportunities to advance, nowadays women are equal in education and opportunity (women in engineering was never heard of a few years ago). I'm sure that as our young women who are career minded will get those top jibs if the deserve them.

Also the very fact that they are biologically women will prevent many of them for aiming for the top jobs. Our own daughter is an example. She has two degrees and has until now been a career driven woman, she has a very senior HR job, but she now has a family and has decided that her life balance does not include any more responsibility in her work life, being a Mum is a top job in it's own right.

Good point pompa.

But why isn't being a dad a top job in it's own right?

If household chores and responsibility for looking after children were shared absolutely equally by both sexes, women would not have to make these kinds of choices.

It is up to the couple. Personally I can't see why anyone wants a top job- it takes over your life. I work to live, I would hate to live to work.
Even if my husband had done the childcare I couldn't have done a top job- I wouldn't have gone to a meeting and missed my child's school play/parents evening/sports day etc you have to ask yourself why you are working if you miss all the important parts of family life. No one is going to give me a top job if I don't put it first.
I count my self the really lucky one- I had years off to look after my children and I was able to work part time. It beats any career.

My MP is a woman- she has children and is getting divorced. Not surprising really- the job comes first. Fine if you want it, but not many do. My son's friend is male and just managed to get his hours down to only work 3 days a week. Another friend's son works shift work and manages to get several days free with his daughter. These men are never going to be top in anything,but they get a life to do the things that they really want to do. No one gets to the end of their life and thinks 'I wish I had spent more time in the office'! ( or very few)

I think we in the UK shouldn`t forget how far we`ve come. At least many of us have the choice to work or not, to take up educational opportunities etc. You only have to think of the Taleban and the dead hand on women in general in some countries to appreciate all that the feminists have fought for here.

I'm old enough to have been interested in the women's movement in the 60s albeit from the sidelines as I was bringing up three young children. I believed, not in women's liberation, but in women's rights as I was once turned down for a job when at the interview they saw I was wearing an engagement ring. Apparently they had a policy not to employ married women.

Gloria Steinham, one of the leading women in the women's movement said 'I've yet to be on a campus where most of the women weren't worrying about some aspect of combining marriage, children and a career. I've yet to find one where many men were worrying about the same thing.'

That probably still holds good today.

You can't be a humanist if you have a religious faith surely?

https://humanism.org.uk/humanism/

Unless you mean that many (not all) religions have misogynistic tendencies Pickles.
Should this be on the 'Philosophy' thread?

I don't think OP meant 'humanist' in that way.

I think that feminism may have been tainted, due to man fearing[often due to women abuse from men], rather than man hating as such.
And a certain section of feminism are thereby angry.

I cant see that the wrokplace environment is going to change all that much until women do the presenteeism that men seem willing to do[or perhaps are fearful not to do].

Women can't do the presenteeism unless men are prepared to be present with the children at a moment's notice so that the women can be on call at work at all times, whatever domestic emergencies occur. Until that is seen as normal, there is no equality of employment.

This is what a feminist looks like!

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/02/fawcett-society-feminist-t-shirts-allegedly-sweatshop-conditions

No, that is what a pair of tits look like

I doubt that many men are first in line for staying home for the washing machine repair man either.

Some of us have no option...

When I was teaching, if the kids were ill in term time my husband used to take time off work to look after them. He did his fair share.

Lucky you, djen. My DH was always 'needed' at work.

Talking about 'feminists', there was a T-shirt for sale for £45 (!) from Whistles which states 'This is what a feminist looks like' and Hattie H, Ed M and Cleggy have been photographed wearing them.
Allegedly they were made in a sweat-shop in Mauritius where the immigrant women get paid 62p an hour, live in barracks and have to sign contracts to stay for 4 years thus not seeing their families for years.

So what does a feminist look like? What does a hypocrite look like?

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/02/fawcett-society-feminist-t-shirts-allegedly-sweatshop-conditions

Apologies Ana - you posted the link first!

This is what a numpty looks like:

And can you believe people are actually paying £45 for a tee-shirt just to look PC or whatever?

I bet the thought of who actually makes the damn things never crossed what passes for their minds...

Ah, I wondered when 'The T Shirt' would rear it's head.

The problem is before the mention of sweat shop workers came into it the story was either about David Cameron not wearing it or Harman wearing it at Prime Ministers Questions.

The only point to the t.shirt is the promotion of feminism but in both of those instances it failed miserably .

On David Cameron I watched a spokeswoman being interviewed and she was absolutely scathing of his not submitting to her will and she made wild accusations with an attitude that sadly is all too common with 'some' in the sister hood.

Harman took full advantage of her position to fly against the status quo on dress code in parliament and she got away with it, unlike Caroline Lucas who was told by the Speaker to cover her t.shirt up whilst doing the same a few weeks ago.

Neither woman came out of it with any credibility in my opinion, just two women who were doing more harm than good by their actions and attitude whilst trying to promote the need for women to be taken more seriously.

I fully understand the issues with the sexes but ye gods do some woman have to mismanage the reasoned debate to be had by being so blinkered and having no grey area.

If the rights of women are to be taken seriously then women must accept that will only happen if women are seen to be able to maturely behave.

As for Miliband and Clegg, well any photo opportunity will do.

Mind you Miliband was caught putting a 2p piece into a street beggers tin . What with that, the t.shirt and the Sun front cover if I was him I would start keeping my head down.

I posted the link because GN is very fond of Tory-bashing, but very rarely raises any matters which show other parties (apart from UKIP, of course!) in an unfavourable light.

There have been several threads about the state of the NHS, but no mention of the mess the Labour-led Welsh government has made of it in Wales, despite it being headline news in the past few weeks.

Shouldn't we be just as upset that the average monthly wage in Mauritius is only £480?

I read that Miliband put at least a couple of quid in the tin.

I thought he would be told off for giving money to beggars, as we're always told not to by the police. Where was his guardian?