How many dead Palestinians ....

I know, eloethan, that is the bummer about the whole thing – the effects of the behaviour of those in power on the innocent and powerless. Tribal warfare was ever thus.

Thanks for that bags, very informative and depressing.

Is that the fault of all the Palestinian people? How many Israeli citizens have been hurt by these rockets?

Over 1,500 Palestinians have been killed, their children traumatized, their infrastructure virtually destroyed, their homes reduced to rubble.

More 'perspective': report of rockets being launched from hospital car park in Gaza into Israel

Thanks Bags

Excellent article, thatbags

"The difference in Jordan was good Arab leadership that recognised that Israel was not going way and war for ever was not a good development policy."

"We should be clear that, given the opportunity, the Arabs would drive the Jews into the sea and that was true from day one. There was no way back from war once a religious state was declared. So Israel, once committed to a nation state in that location and granted that right by other nations, has had no choice but to fight. In my view, therefore, neither side has any shred of moral standing left, nor have the nations that supported both sides."

Chilling stuff.

Peter Schwarts's letter is the most comprehensive account I have read, providing a joining-up-of-the-dots of the Israel/Gaza conflict, from a historical perspective to the present day. Full of clarity and fact, and ultimately great sadness.

Thanks for flagging it up B.

Excellent thatbags but depressing.

But here's an even shorter summary: @Big_Wild_World: @Independent These 2 guys outline all you need to know about the ongoing Palestinian Israeli tribal dispute & it's all bad news.

Thought provoking article by an atheist Jew in the Independent. It sums up how I feel about the whole horrific thing pretty much.

A non Jewish person can't marry a Jew in Israel without converting so most of them get around it by flying to Cyprus for the ceremony and then flying back for the celebrations.

I think the Palestinian parents would want their child to be Palestinian and not Israeli.

My brother has in-laws living in Israel. The father is Jewish but the mother isn't so the children are not Jewish. They are, however, Israeli nationals and have both served National Service in the army.

A friend of mines daughter was born in Israel, nearly three months early on their way back to the UK some years ago. If they had been Jewish the child could have claimed Israeli nationality. As her parents were not Jewish she couldn't. Apparently you have to be Jewish, either born there or anywhere else, to be an Israeli national.
A child of Palestinian parents, even if born in Israel is Palestinian not Israeli. Very selective! I do not understand it myself..

Very likely, Galen. Small world in the armed forces. I used to be overjoyed when we moved to a new posting to find a friend from a couple of years back living next door.

So was my father. They'd probably have met in the officers mess

I wonder, Galen My stepfather was an army captain but I don't know much about his career as he didn't marry my mother until 1971 and by then we had all moved on from service life.

My father was in Jerusalem when the King David was blown up. He was in the RAMC I wonder if they ever met

My late stepfather was in the King David Hotel when it was blown up. He hated serving in Palestine and did not support Zionism/Israel for the rest of his life.

My mother taught English and Music in a Jewish school in Aden which prepared children for life in Israel. I spent many happy days in that school which obviously influenced my feelings and support in later years.

It's hard to keep an open mind when there is so much suffering in Gaza.

Palestine/Israel - a mess now and has been for centuries. The UN established Israel in 1948 and should be taking a lead in trying to bring peace, instead of crying crocodile tears from the (relative) comfort of New York. In the meantime the atrocities being perpetrated by both sides will continue unabated until something really terrible happens which might bring these people to their senses. My old dad was a British soldier there in 1934 and used to tell us about the bad things that happened. Nothing much has changed except for the worse.

They killed soldiers and collaborators, blew up trains, disrupted manufacturing and transport, communicated with the enemy, used false identification documents and harried town and city administrators. There were different groups with vastly different political views and ultimate aims. Who were they - French terrorists (aka resistance) or Greek terrorists (andartes) in the 1940s.

Another group of terrorists seeking autonomy and freedom blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem.

But then it's just a word...

So I watched C4 news again tonight- there was a little Gazan girl, probably my gs's age, injured - no one knows who she is, probably her family are dead. My heart strings are tugged when my dgs falls over and I am there to kiss it better - how can I not feel sick at heart for this little girl? I am beyond appalled at UK politicians - apart from a tiny few- not prepared to criticise the disproportionality of IsraeL's behaviour. I am beyond appalled at the Jewish community leaders in the UK who are saying nothing. I feel nothing about the WW1 commemorations at the moment when there is so much present day suffering in what us basically a deafening silence. I learned tonight the name of the captured Israeli soldier, I learned he had just become engaged and had lived in the UK - and no one can tell me the name of that little girl, alone and in pain.

Another tweet that adds a perspective of sorts for me, but also uncertainty:

@REnlightenment: Just try and think what your "proportionate" response to underground terrorist tunnels would be #StandWithIsrael

Like ffinn, I have had mixed feelings on the Israel/Gaza situation (for a long time). But that tweet added a perspective for me. It's still wrong of Hamas to send rockets into Israel, just as it's wrong for Israel not to be more discriminating in its response.

*loving you don"t seem to post on other threads ???

Do they bore you ???