Plan to Reverse Brexit With European Defence?

And why not. The Brexxit referendum was over 10 years ago and the political and economic scene has changed in a way that no one, 10 years ago could possibly envisage.

The late, great economist, John Maynard Keynes was once criticised for changing his mind on a topic. His reply was - when conditions change I change also.

This is the situation we are in now. Polls now show that the majority of people now favour, if not re-entering the EU, at least having a much closer relationship with it.

If watching the spoken speech is too long and tedious a printed transcript of the speech can be found at www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-speech-during-the-munich-security-conference-14-february This can be read a lot more uickly

Thank you MOnica I have read the speech.
We do need to be ready. Russia is dangerous but need to know that Europe is a sleeping giant that will be ready and equal to them if they should decide on aggression.

Brexit has been a disaster. I don’t think a referendum is required. If re-entering Europe was to be a manifesto pledge, the current government would be re-elected with another huge majority. No brainer. I think it’s probably the only thing that will get them re-elected.

We are part of Europe but no longer part of the EU. We can form strong links with the rest of Europe through defence.
It's essential for all of Europe to stand together and show strength.
Russia tries to weaken us and I believe had a hand in Brexit. They know that Europe assisting Ukraine has scuppered their plan to take over there and so we have become the enemy.
It seems that leaders of European countries are expecting aggression from Russia at some time in the not too distant future.
We need to be ready.

It would seem very sensible to me. The world order has shifted somewhat in a decade, and we need to respond to changes.
Who could have predicted the situation in the Ukraine, or that the USA would threaten to take Greenland by force?

What no one seems to be giving consideration to, is whether EU members will welcome us.

I think that the vast majority will, but there will certainly be some dissenters.

Just now going to read Starmer’s speech.

I cannot listen to Phil Moorhouse as he always sounds like he's reading a boring lecture. I tried really hard DaisyAnneReturns and got to six minutes.
I did read the transcript of the speech though - thanks M0nica for the link.

I can't really comment on the video but it was a speech worth reading, by Starmer. I don't think he's talking about "reversing Brexit" though - his heart may be there but it's not about that - at this stage anyway. Procurement with, in and by our European neighbours makes sense. I think we are starting to do this so yes, it's already catching on.
"Catching on" sounds rather glib and almost accidental though... I think it's more deliberate and measured and thoughtful than this.

I'd be delighted if we worked more with Europe than America on defence - but we all know it's not an overnight shift and (I hope) Trump will be gone soon and someone more reliable (and stable) will take over leadership there. Let's just keep our new efforts focused on a partnership with Europe - but let's not humiliate America with loose words - as Trump is volatile and thin skinned.

Whitewavemark2 I think they will welcome defense partnerships as these have already started...
The rest is "not just yet" I think.

'Be prepared' is a good motto to live and survive by.

NotSpaghetti

Whitewavemark2 I think they will welcome defense partnerships as these have already started...
The rest is "not just yet" I think.

Yes that is what I think.

Defence, frankly is a no brainer with the geo-political situation as it is, but yes reversing Brexit is certainly not a given.

Starmer was not suggesting that reversing Brexit is on the table.

I think that he is still in placating Trump mode. Big mistake imo.

I think it will be another few years before we will be able to revisit joining Europe.

IMO it's not possible to develop an effective European military force unless we have closer ties to the EU. I also believe that Russia meddled in our referendum and Brexit was sold on a pack of lies. We had the best of both worlds prior to Brexit, full membership of the EU without having to take the Euro as currency, we won't get that again but hopefully we can at least be stronger and safer within a European military initiative now that Nato is weakened by Trump's presidency.

Re Trump. I think we need to keep him at arm's length but still stay "friendly" - it's a high-wire skill I think.

Brexit has been a complete disaster and must be remedied, especially when international politics and threats have changed so much. We must re-arm and it makes sense to collaborate with Europe to make the expenditure go as far as possible and to ensure inter-operability of weapons and ammunition. Mr Trump is often wrong ( as Churchill often was) but he is right about defence against the Bear ( as Churchill was about Hitler).

I think Marco Rubio is right and the west should stand together. That means Europe and the US.
The US does believe that "might is right" under Trump and would want us to adhere to their ways but I think they know they are stronger with Europe than without.

NotSpaghetti Mon 16-Feb-26 09:04:54

Horses for courses NotSpaghetti. What suits one of us will not suit all. His videos are very well researched and I find them useful although they are content packed so I do have to go back and listen again quite often. Even the fact that they prompt other sources makes it worthwhile though.

I don't think Starmer is "reversing Brexit" either but this seems a good start to a better and very necessary relationship for both parties to me.

As said in the vid getting all European countries on board will be tricky, in my words - like herding cats. But I believe Starmer is right, the EU might have its own defence mechanisms but the UK and Norway are two wealthy players who could throw money in the pot to buy arms.
We have to ignore Brexit and do what is best to protect the people of this country, times have changed radically since those now distant days when people felt assured that when they exited the EU the US would be ready to take our side. Politically a new world order is being forged by the US, one in which old allegiances cannot be relied upon and new allegiances have to be sought.
Trump himself has encouraged Europe to go its own way, the UK included. So let’s get on with it or suffer the co sequences.

I also think that Greenland was a turning point, of course it turned out that Trump was talking a load of baloney as per but European leaders realised that a major ally in days gone by could very easily become a potential enemy.

We won't be rejoining the EU in the near future if ever but we are part of Europe and we are stronger together.

Russia is circling our waters and is intent on harm. It's important to show a united front.

Thanks for the vid DaisyAnneReturns.

There are two ways of rejoining Europe, One is go up and knock on the great big knocker on the big front door. The other is to uietly slide in through the back door.

One thing in Starmers favour and boy does he need one, is te sense he is showing by using the uiet back dooe. Defence agreements, trade agreements, Erasmus reinstated and Horizon(?), the cooperative research project, all of which we left or were ejected from after brexit but have now rejoined.

It's sad that we are having to use the back door. Before Brexit we used the front door and had power and influence in the EU. Immigration and lack of sovereignty were the arguments that were used to persuade people to vote "leave" and I find it interesting that Reform is still using those arguments to garner support. I wonder if those who voted to leave the EU have learned to question those arguments?

Fallingstar

As said in the vid getting all European countries on board will be tricky, in my words - like herding cats. But I believe Starmer is right, the EU might have its own defence mechanisms but the UK and Norway are two wealthy players who could throw money in the pot to buy arms.
We have to ignore Brexit and do what is best to protect the people of this country, times have changed radically since those now distant days when people felt assured that when they exited the EU the US would be ready to take our side. Politically a new world order is being forged by the US, one in which old allegiances cannot be relied upon and new allegiances have to be sought.
Trump himself has encouraged Europe to go its own way, the UK included. So let’s get on with it or suffer the co sequences.

We have to ignore Brexit and do what is best to protect the people of this country, ...

Quite. But I think that's the way Starmer has always looked at it. He seems quite pragmatic.