Plan to Reverse Brexit With European Defence?

MayBee70

I’m ok with stuff being uncensored. What I do struggle with is blatant lies being perpetrated to the extent that they become an alternative truth.

This is the problem blatant lies and distortions can be broadcast online while mainstream media at least have some laws to control them

I’m ok with stuff being uncensored. What I do struggle with is blatant lies being perpetrated to the extent that they become an alternative truth.

Nope it's the ones I don't agree with that make me grateful.
And of course those who wish to control it that frighten me most of all.

Galaxy

I thank god every day for uncensored social media.

I'm sure it's welcome if you agree with it.

I thank god every day for uncensored social media.

M0nica

I have never ever clicked on the follow key - and never would.

Glad to hear it Monica, I only follow family, BUT so called influencers have many thousands of followers, anyone impressionable gets a completely distorted view of any topic.

There are a great many impressionable in the UK.

I have never ever clicked on the follow key - and never would.

Truth can't compete with media, referendum by media, election by media, trial by media.
Don't let the facts get in the way of selling a good story, gaining influence, power, the loudest campaigners get most attention, Farage is a good example of getting far too much attention than he deserves.

Worst of all is social media because if a post attracts you, you click "follow" then you get bombarded with similar material, its not just adverts, it's political opinion, its uncensored and unaccountable

M0nica

foxie48

Monica it's exactly the same with Wales, it benefited hugely from EU money but they still voted "leave".

The problem was the Brexit team lied through their teeth about the disadvantages of being in the EU and eually about the advantages of coming out, while the stay community was so convinced that the vote would be a walkover win for tehm, they did nothing at all, at least nothing perceptible.

How were people in the more distant and deprived areas of the country to know that the new road they had just got, or the school and medical improvements they now used, were financed by EU money, if no one told them - and the were not told.

Exactly.

What else can be done to inform people, then? You could send someone round in a van with a loudspeaker but it still wouldn't guarantee that many would e 'informed'.

The answer is nothing. When I was working for an international company, somebody posted abroad turned out to be a total disaster, causing the company many problems because he was so blank to the local culture.

Back in the UK there were backroom meetings about what had gone wrong. Were the briefings this man and his family had had inadeuate? What could be done to stop it happening again?

In th end someone said 'We could have briefed X 24/7 for a month, and the result would have been the same. He just wasn't listening.'

And you hear it so often 'Nobody told me' when the information was out there in multimedia forms and letters were written 'Well, I didn't see them'. There is nothing you can do except leave them feeling aggrieved and believing every conspiracy theory they come across.

AGAA4

Or perhaps put it in big letters on the side of a bus as the leave campaign did.

Of course! 😂

Everyone managed to read that one...

Or perhaps put it in big letters on the side of a bus as the leave campaign did.

M0nica

*MaizieD8 i can only go on what people living there said to the reporter in the clip I saw.

I do remember seeing the EU funded signs in France and I think I saw them in the UK, but havin them up does not mean people read them, or still less, read and I digest.

I can remember, a survey done, admitted many years ago. The group surveyed were company managers, and the survey found out that 60% were functionally illiterate, In other word they could read, but most of the time couldn't be bothered, so most of the print that came before thei eyes went unread.

but havin them up does not mean people read them, or still less, read and I digest.

What else can be done to inform people, then? You could send someone round in a van with a loudspeaker but it still wouldn't guarantee that many would e 'informed'.

I can remember Leave voters on this forum telling us, if the subject of EU funding for disadvantaged areas was raised, that all the EU was doing was giving us back 'our money' and that of course these areas would still be funded after Brexit, even better funded..

'functional illiteracy' means that one can't read well enough for daily life, not just that one CBA..

In my town there was a centre specifically for young special needs children. It was very well attended and helped both parents and the children. It was rated excellent.

It was funded by the EU and closed after Brexit. The parents were very upset but some I believe had voted leave.

Democracy , for it to work, depends on educated electorate.

The BBC article that I posted pointed out that many leave voters thought the EU was all about immigration.

The A30 around Bodmin, which used to be a huge bottleneck was rebuilt as a bypass - curtesy of EU funding.

M0nica

foxie48

Monica it's exactly the same with Wales, it benefited hugely from EU money but they still voted "leave".

The problem was the Brexit team lied through their teeth about the disadvantages of being in the EU and eually about the advantages of coming out, while the stay community was so convinced that the vote would be a walkover win for tehm, they did nothing at all, at least nothing perceptible.

How were people in the more distant and deprived areas of the country to know that the new road they had just got, or the school and medical improvements they now used, were financed by EU money, if no one told them - and the were not told.

There are plaques all over the north of England telling people that various projects were EU funded ( eg the social centre in the next town to my partner and in places in Sunderland that we used to visit with friends). I used to be a member of a Facebook group that used to highlight them, The Eden project in Cornwall was part funded by them I believe. We used to visit Ireland a lot and I was always surprised to see things like sports centres in small villages which, in retrospect were EU funded.

*MaizieD8 i can only go on what people living there said to the reporter in the clip I saw.

I do remember seeing the EU funded signs in France and I think I saw them in the UK, but havin them up does not mean people read them, or still less, read and I digest.

I can remember, a survey done, admitted many years ago. The group surveyed were company managers, and the survey found out that 60% were functionally illiterate, In other word they could read, but most of the time couldn't be bothered, so most of the print that came before thei eyes went unread.

How were people in the more distant and deprived areas of the country to know that the new road they had just got, or the school and medical improvements they now used, were financed by EU money, if no one told them - and the were not told.

I seem to recall that many projects funded with EU money usually had a prominent sign displayed somewhere.

Searching produces quite a few images

duckduckgo.com/?q=signs+on+EU+funded+projects+in+the+UK&t=chromentp&ia=images&iax=images

Probably quite a few people didn't notice them.

Besides which, people's ignorance can be 'surprising'.

We've recently had a letter (sent to all constituents) from our local MP informing us about moneys allocated to the constituency under the Pride in Place initiative and inviting us to meetings about it. When this was discussed in my nice middle class Pilates group people had a) never heard of Pride in Place and b) were asking who this person was who'd sent the letter. Was he a local councillor? They seemed quite surprised to learn he is our MP (though surely the fact that it was written on Parliament notepaper might have given them a clue)

foxie48

Monica it's exactly the same with Wales, it benefited hugely from EU money but they still voted "leave".

And Cornwall.

foxie48

Monica it's exactly the same with Wales, it benefited hugely from EU money but they still voted "leave".

The problem was the Brexit team lied through their teeth about the disadvantages of being in the EU and eually about the advantages of coming out, while the stay community was so convinced that the vote would be a walkover win for tehm, they did nothing at all, at least nothing perceptible.

How were people in the more distant and deprived areas of the country to know that the new road they had just got, or the school and medical improvements they now used, were financed by EU money, if no one told them - and the were not told.

Monica it's exactly the same with Wales, it benefited hugely from EU money but they still voted "leave".

Chocolatelovinggran

WithNobsOnIt, I am sorry to disappoint you, but I understand that moves have been made to reintroduce the " smug nice little middle class " Erasmus programme.
I am pleased to see this because I believe that the more people expand their horizons and their learning, the better. We may have to agree to differ on this.

Not only that but also the Horizon(?) collabarative research programme, where EU countries, including Britian worked together on projects to benfit all of us. Following the end of Horizon, many European scientists working in Britain moved abroad, as did many British scientists, to our disadvantage.

Corruption is not unknown in this country, can I mention the provision of PPE for COVID, just at a starter.

Looking at Transparency International's Corruption Index www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2024 We are at number 20 in their list. 9 EU members and several other European countries are less corrupt than us, above us are also countries like Bhutan, Seychelles and Barbados.

As for the hackneyed class argument WithNobsOnIt made. There was a news item last week visiting a Northumberland mining constituency, that had voted Brexit and now regretted it because, they had never realised how much EU money was invested in their area and the loss of it had seriously affected the uality of their living in an area already deprived. The complaint was 'Nobody told us how much of the improvements we were seeing was funded by the EU.'

I listened to an interesting (if worrying) Rest is Politics this week. Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart talked about the security meeting in Munich which they both attended. They watched an interview with the deputy US Department of War guy - can’t remember his name. He was asked if the USA would immediately come to Estonia’s aid if Russia invaded an area which was mainly Russian speaking. The man couldn’t give a straight answer. We all know that Estonia are part of NATO.