Imagine life without the NHS?

I’ve read of cases where married couples have had to divorce because of health care costs ( can’t remember the ins and out of it). And I’ve seen bills that people have shown on Facebook for procedures that we take for granted. And most people have now got used to the idea that they won’t have an NHS dentist and will have to pay for private treatment. Yet another thing that this country is sleepwalking into.

Over 90% of American citizens have health insurance, either employer or state paid. There will be some that fall through the net but it is available to all.

There are many countries without the NHS that cope very well.

Yes the NHS is wonderful. We have a version of it but I think it is not as good as yours and we are usually out of pocket with doctor appointments and scripts. Not as bad as the USA though.

Posted before I had finished

NHS is very expensive to run and we pay for it, maybe more per person than we would pay in medical insurance.

I have private medical insurance , have for years ... saying that it does cost ... used it a few times ... NHS ... I am not rich far from rich, but would willingly pay into it, out of my pension to keep it. I think it is wonderful to know people can get treated, without worrying about the cost, although some could pop to the chemist to ask for advice , even cheap medication. Years ago when I went to the doctors told me the medication was cheaper over the counter. I know people who have medication delivered regularly, but don't need it as already have loads , people should just contact chemist & say , as this takes a lot of wasted money , especially if free ... my opinion ... KEEP THE NHS

My son lives in the US and healthcare is a major issue there. He and his wife are fortunate to have health cover with their jobs but even then, it still costs. Their young son got a piece of Lego stuck up his nose (don’t ask!) and it had to be removed in a clinic. Even with insurance, it cost $700 co-pay.

There are so many T&C’s to the various insurances, it’s not like you pay and then have cover for everything, everywhere in the US. They both know people who have been bankrupted by health costs and even a 24yo man who died of pneumonia because he had no cover and couldn’t afford to take time off work to visit a free clinic.

What annoys me is when people say it is free ! No it isn't free people have & people are still paying into ... like I have said in my previous post I would willingly pay some on a regular basis it to keep it ... I am sure others would aswell ...

I think it would be better, perhaps, to say 'imagine life without socialised healthcare' because there are other, good, non-NHS socialised systems available.

America, of course, is not one of them.

Both statements in this are wrong:

NHS is very expensive to run and we pay for it, maybe more per person than we would pay in medical insurance

We pay very little compared to private insurance (particularly where that is not a top-up to socialised healthcare); indeed, some people pay nothing if they don't pay tax; and spending on the NHS is very low (too low, which is why it's struggling now, and that's a political decision) and very cost-effective to run.

Beautiful, the NHS is free at the point of use. I am saddened by comments such as those made by Elizabeth27, private medical insurance is all well and good if (a) you can afford it and (b) you are basically using it to queue jump/get your hip replaced/varicose veins stripped, but private medical companies only provide services which can be costed; they do not have A&E, do not have ICU, and heaven help anyone who develops a life changing condition such as MS.

Elizabeth27

Over 90% of American citizens have health insurance, either employer or state paid. There will be some that fall through the net but it is available to all.

There are many countries without the NHS that cope very well.

But having insurance doesn't mean that it is free - many have to pay towards their premiums and you still have to "co-pay" when you use services.

Now this is going back over 25 years but an American friend with insurance had to pay $2,000 in co-payments when she had her baby and then $500 when the baby was a few month old and had a chest infection.

Under the French system, we paid 25.00 Euros for each GP visit. This was then reimbursed from the State after ca. 6 weeks. For specialist care, a referral is needed. This sometimes costs 50.00, a portion of which is reimbursed but not a great deal. However, it does tend to stop malingerers who have to pay up-front. System by and large works well. If you are indigenous, then the State picks up the tab. Same applied to Belgium, but definitely not to Switzerland, where the cost of health insurance is horrendous!

Stats to back up my claim about the NHS cost, from The Health Foundation, using ONS and OECD figures

My DIL is American. She has a friend who had a Heart Transplant. Iwas interested to see how they got on. It was successful, eventually he got the bill over $500.000 luckily most covered by insurance but not all of it.

I think all of us who have lived, or who have family, in the US know that the system there is very broken indeed.

My brother-in-law, who is in his mid-70s, and healthy, and living in the US, spends 50% of his social security (a great deal higher than a UK pension) on healthcare costs, because, despite what you may believe, Medicare is not free (Part A which covers mainly hospital care, is, but has some co-pays) and Part B, which covers things like GP visits, is not. I can't list all the premiums, but essentially if a single person earns up to $88,000 (£75k) or a couple £175,00 (£149k) per year their premium is $148 per calendar month.

And even then, it still does not cover all one needs.

Here is a list of exemptions even if you have Part A and B:

www.medicare.gov/what-medicare-covers/whats-not-covered-by-part-a-part-b

At the moment I prefer the French health system over the NHS.
The waiting lists seem so long in the UK and I do like the idea seeing a doctor within a week or earlier, face to face.

I do pay 25€ to see a doctor but 70% is refunded under the normal system but as I pay for extra cover all paid except 2€.
I don’t pay for prescriptions.

I don’t know how much each person in the UK has to pay each year out of their income for the NHS but for those under 9, 654 euros will receive free health care, including optician and dental care.

However, opticians as well as dentists, gynecologists etc. have a month or so waiting period.

I think there are other European countries that are better than France though.

The other thing I didn't realise about the US system is that any healthcare debt is inherited after someone dies. So if your loved one has cancer and your health insurance doesn't cover their treatment you have to pay all the rest even after they die.

Elizabeth27

Over 90% of American citizens have health insurance, either employer or state paid. There will be some that fall through the net but it is available to all.

There are many countries without the NHS that cope very well.

In "Unsheltered" the middle class couple lose their health insurance when he loses his job. They then don't qualify for anything until they lose any assets and are eligible for medicare.
90% means that 1 in every 10 people has no healthcare.

I tried to buy private health cover aged 43 after changing jobs which meant I lost my previous good terms and conditions. My RA diagnosis meant I was refused cover. The expensive treatment I’ve had the past 15 years means I’m mobile and healthy.
The nhs is a lifeline for many. One of my loved ones is having £1500 of treatment weekly currently. In the USA it would be sell the house

I can't help asking Glorianny what happens if you can't, or don't, pay?

No, I can't imagine, as it is (well, was) the best system in the world.

What happens under the French system about pre-exisiting conditions? If we have to move to a Health Insurance system, it has to ensure 2 things a) that those who can't afford it are covered by a safety net. Having 10% of the population not covered as in the USA is just NOT acceptable. And b) that Insurers cannot refuse or exclude pre-exisiting conditions or some conditions.

Several geographically European (so not just EU) countries have systems that seem to work pretty well so I imagine that if we didn't have the NHS we'd have sorted out something similar. My optimistic side thinks we could still do this.

Sorry got preoccupied with my own circumstances. We need to fund the nhs, train recruit and retain medical staff. I expect improvements can be made but we need to keep our nhs.
It isn’t free because we pay into it but it’s free at the point of use which it should be
Id happily pay £25 for a doctor appointment but I’m lucky not to be surviving only on a state pension, or caring for a young family on minimum wage.

Fleurpepper

No, I can't imagine, as it is (well, was) the best system in the world.

What happens under the French system about pre-exisiting conditions? If we have to move to a Health Insurance system, it has to ensure 2 things a) that those who can't afford it are covered by a safety net. Having 10% of the population not covered as in the USA is just NOT acceptable. And b) that Insurers cannot refuse or exclude pre-exisiting conditions or some conditions.

A person I know, returned from another country with pre-existing conditions is treated free of charge, even operations because she doesn’t have an income over 9, 654 euros.

I have suggested that she could work to improve her life but she has refused because she would lose this, free transport and cheaper housing

Baggs

Several geographically European (so not just EU) countries have systems that seem to work pretty well so I imagine that if we didn't have the NHS we'd have sorted out something similar. My optimistic side thinks we could still do this.

So what happens to those of us that have paid into the NHS throughout our working lives? Will that money be transferred to the new system. Also, most of the talks regarding NHS privatisation seem to have been with US companies so I would assume that any new system will be based on theirs. We seem to follow them in most things. Someone’s husband was in talks with the US regarding NHS privatisation recently but I can’t remember who it was? Was it Dido Hardings? It was someone like that.