Airborne transmission

Farmor15 - Thank you for this.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

My DH and I have frequently mentioned how far air from people’s lungs travels on a cold day, and if you are walking past or following someone you will walk through it. And that is outside, particularly on a calm day which we have had lately. Runners in particular spread their breath a good deal.

Indoors will be worse of course because there is no wind to blow it away.

I spoke to my neighbour today on the phone. Her family broke the rules at Christmas and as a consequence covid tore through the whole family. Her mum died yesterday, my neighbour is beginning to recover but not before feeling very ill indeed and not being able to breath . They called the ambulance at one stage because she was not able to get her breath, but she wasn’t taken to hospital because her oxygen levels weren’t low enough. Another member of the family had been pretty ill, and has a severe chest infection.

The moral of the story is stay in, keep away from folk, wear a mask when near other folk even outdoors.

No, sorry, this is too much. Anybody who doesn't know that the risks of catching Covid indoors are much greater than the risks when you are outdoors must have been living in a cave for the last 10 months. I'm a subscriber to the New Stateman and generally support their journalism but this is just weird.

We're constantly being told to open windows when we're indoors. Schoolchildren are sitting with their coats on. The advice was to have Xmas dinner with Granny in the garden. Even adverts on Classic FM were telling us to open the windows to let the COVID particles out. The terminology might not be right (no such thing as COVID particles) but just because nobody is using the word "aerosols" doesn't mean we haven't been told about the risks.

But thank you for starting the thread Farmor15, it should lead to interesting discussions!

Thank you Farmor. Worrying if you work all day in an office, even if you are distanced.

Or in a school of course.

This study from South Korea shows that keeping 2 meters distance indoors is no protection if you’re unlucky enough to be in the path of air coming from an infected person.
zeynep.substack.com/p/small-data-big-implications

You only have to pass someone’s who’s smoking at a distance to realise how far someone’s breath can spread. And I don't think the ventilation message is getting across. Opening doors and windows and turning off air conditioning systems etc was one of the first things that some eastern countries did and look at the success they’ve had in combatting the virus. I don’t see hands, face, space, ventilate on the PM’s podium when he gives one of his useless briefings.

This pandemic is airborne, there's no doubt about that because of the thousands who are infected, plus it's an airborne disease because of the transmission through the air as well as touch of course. It's the most dangerous of diseases.

If anyone passes close to me when out, I always turn my head away from them for some distance after they have passed.

Because we are told this virus is airborne , my DH and I always wear our masks outside now , we feel safer and the masks keep our faces warm too , !

A recent DrJohn blog said that @ 60% of people caught the virus from someone who was asymptomatic or presymptomatic. That means there are a hell of a lot of people walking around spreading the virus at any one time. I still think that the WHO advice that mask wearing didn’t work has resulted in many people still refusing to believe the virus is airborne.

I read something yesterday, didn't keep the link, but will look for it. A girl caught Covid from being over 10 feet away from someone, in a room for 5 minutes. I don't know if they were masked and if there was ventilation.

This was in a country with almost zero Covid and excellent tracing. As I said, if I can refund the link, I will.

We are wearing our masks as soon as we leave the house. Not that we do much.

Shopping delivered anything we haven’t got we make do.

Walk the. Dog twice a day on the South Downs where there are very few if any people depending on the time of day and that is it.

We are staying in the house and garden, but so cold just the house really☺️

I think that this new strain makes aerosol much more lethal than before.

But I really, honestly and truly thought that everyone knew by now that it's airborne. This has been known for months and months.

And that masks are worn to stop an infected person's aerosols (the really light particles which linger in the air, sometimes for hours in unventilated spaces) spreading.

That sending children to sit close together in poorly ventilated classrooms posed a huge danger to the children, their teachers and their families because of airborne transmission.:-)

And that infection from touching contaminated surfaces is very rare...

Yes of course everyone knew, but no one could have foreseen the 70% more infectious mutant which is using aerosol to greater effect, and the fact that so many people are a-symptomatic than initially thought.

I think it certainly doesn’t do any harm to remind people. Without constant reminder things slip.

This article is not reminding people, its saying people don't know and that's the government's fault. Like I say, weird.

Interesting practice, Monica. I find myself holding my breath and rushing by if anyone has done anything untoward when in my vicinity outdoors. I do try for the two metres at all times but that aerosol article has me thinking that's not enough.

Thank you Farmor15, very interesting article.

Here is the link. And I underestimated the contagiousness from memory.

20 feet away, 5 minutes exposure was all it took. With the OLD variant. The UK's new strain is yet more infectious.

www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-12-09/five-minutes-from-20-feet-away-south-korean-study-shows-perils-of-indoor-dining-for-covid-19

Dil`s grandma in hospital bed riddrn and in isolation. had covid test came back negative.
Two days later she had another one,she tested positive for covid and she is very poorly.
Definitely airbourne transmited as the staff were nagative.

I think most do know that the virus is airborne, and droplets are released when speaking, and spread further when coughing, sneezing, shouting or singing.

What the article is saying is that many are not aware that tiny aerosols that are also emitted just by breathing for example, float around and remain in the air sometimes for hours afterwards. Why, as the article pointed out, was an NHS choir singing inside a church, during the Queen’ Speech if this is understood and taken seriously?

I do not believe the government has placed enough emphasis on this, for example allowing indoor places of worship to remain open.

People have told me that they have met others indoors, but felt it was ok because they had room to distance, Distancing may be completely irrelevant, especially with a much more infectious virus.

I agree with you Greeneyedgirl. I think the message has been that if you keep two metre distance, you're "safe". It's been known for a long time that's not true and that tiny droplets hang around in an enclosed space as aerosols. That's why schools in particular, but also paces like packaging and processing buildings should never have been described as safe.

Any message needs repeated and varied delivery to be effective. An animation showing how aerosol transmission works could be effective. Underlined with the risk of asymptomatic infection. A lot of people have switched off, different, innovative methods of communication are needed to filter through.

Why hasn't the government added urgent advice on ventilation to their 'Hands, Face, Space' message and made it a priority?

Telling people to meet outdoors just doesn't hack it when it's cold and wet. It's okay if you're being active, but just sitting 6 feet apart having a chat is not pleasant. And eating Christmas dinner outside was always going to be a non-starter, wasn't it?

This is just another of the hundreds of black marks this government is amassing. Though I don't think they care. Their friends are making a lot of money from covid, they have a huge majority of MPs which they no doubt assume they will hang on to in 2024 now they've discovered that voters are so very easily fooled and they're 'saving money' on our pensions. Win win all the way.