Hmmm, 200 Years Of The Railways.

Very sad. So much freight could go by rail and reduce the number of lorries on the road, pollution, numbe4 or ne2 roads…
There seems to be no real solution - or at least an affordable one. Nothing like the catastrophe that is HS2.

Not only did Beeching desecrate the railways, Thatcher's privatisation changed the whole industry into a profit making concern for shareholders which is why our journeys by rail are so much more expensive than in most of Europe.

We now have delivery next day available for most purchases, where overnight distribution to your local hub from maybe 100 collection points into a van for delivery, is taken for granted, can you imagine that happening by rail.

Do we really need to have long distance passenger travel?. Most journeys are discretionary with global communications most admin could done from home or a local office. In my schooldays public transport was the norm it’s only your and my wish to travel independantly that has caused the traffic problems we have to day.

We are the problem.

The difference in rail travel price here to Europe is staggering Ashcombe.

We took a train journey recently from Faro to Lagos. Just over 2 hours. The cost was 4 Euro's each (with a small over 60's discount). A short journey here to Birmingham, which is about 25 minutes is over £7!!

Ah, yes. Dr Beeching’s report received and implemented by Transport Minister Ernest Marples. Who wasn’t at all influenced by his interests in construction firms engaged in motorway building…

Incidentally, according to Wikipedia, Marples died in Monaco, where he had gone to avoid being prosecuted for fraud in the UK…

DH and I still travel by rail regularly but then we are fortunate to have First Class passes due to his lifelong career in the railways. He was devastated by the change to privatisation and predicted that greed would cause fares to rise to the detriment of travellers.

The other issue is the lack of rolling stock to ease overcrowding because each separate company has its own with its own livery, staff, etc and of course it won't be shared. Never an issue back in the pre privatisation era.

I never believed that privatisation would improve any of our services. So it has come to pass. All the hype about competition producing better services.

My grandfather was a railway man until his retirement. I remember my father and grandfather having a massive argument about the railways. They were nationalised as far as my father was concerned because all the smaller companies were ineffective. This must have been in the mid to late 1950s.

Now we are left with this huge mess!

In A level economics, railways are usually cited as a classic example of market failure.

There can't be genuine competition because trains are operating on the same track, so are restricted in what they can do.

David49

We now have delivery next day available for most purchases, where overnight distribution to your local hub from maybe 100 collection points into a van for delivery, is taken for granted, can you imagine that happening by rail.

Do we really need to have long distance passenger travel?. Most journeys are discretionary with global communications most admin could done from home or a local office. In my schooldays public transport was the norm it’s only your and my wish to travel independantly that has caused the traffic problems we have to day.

We are the problem.

We now have delivery next day available for most purchases,

The Victorians ran a pretty good overnight delivery service on the rail network. They had an efficient postal service, where it could even be possible for a letter to be delivered on the same day that it was delivered. Goods ordered one day could be delivered the next day to any railway station. Fish could travel overnight to be sold in the markets the next day and equally quickly despatched to the purchaser . The Victorian post and rail distribution systems could be practically as good as any modern distribution service. We haven't advanced very far since then. We just have thousands of lorries instead of trains...

As for long distance journeys, why wouldn't we want or need to make them? What an odd statement.

'same day as posted...
(Sorry, I'm responding in a hurry)

grandMattie

Very sad. So much freight could go by rail and reduce the number of lorries on the road, pollution, numbe4 or ne2 roads…
There seems to be no real solution - or at least an affordable one. Nothing like the catastrophe that is HS2.

The problem is that freight would still need to be dropped off and picked up at big stations with enough space for loading and offloading and sorting. There would also need to be access roads to the stations. Logistically, it doesn't make sense.

Maizie The Victorians also had branch lines all over the place, which enabled deliveries. Most of those branch lines disappeared years ago and have been re-purposed.

growstuff

In A level economics, railways are usually cited as a classic example of market failure.

Beeching was a total disaster.

As for railways being a classic exmaples of market failure, this is a sadly UK feature. It certainly is not in countries where the Governement and the people have decided to support railways for the benefit of all. It is a choice, and one that can be economically very successful, and help with environment protection and social integration of the countryside.

My DH's great uncle was instrumental in the magnificent development of the railways in SW England, the GWR network, very proud of him, and were treated like VIP golden visitors at Didcot recently.

growstuff

grandMattie

Very sad. So much freight could go by rail and reduce the number of lorries on the road, pollution, numbe4 or ne2 roads…
There seems to be no real solution - or at least an affordable one. Nothing like the catastrophe that is HS2.

The problem is that freight would still need to be dropped off and picked up at big stations with enough space for loading and offloading and sorting. There would also need to be access roads to the stations. Logistically, it doesn't make sense.

Why? Just build freight stations outside major towns with good link system. It works.

grandMattie

Very sad. So much freight could go by rail and reduce the number of lorries on the road, pollution, numbe4 or ne2 roads…
There seems to be no real solution - or at least an affordable one. Nothing like the catastrophe that is HS2.

The whole point of HS2 was to get more freight off the roads. It wasn’t just about getting from a go b quicker. Our rail system is archaic.

Also
“A lorry can do significantly more damage to a road than a car, with the damage increasing exponentially with weight, particularly due to the "fourth power law". This means a lorry's heavier axle load can cause many times more damage than a car's. For example, a 44-tonne truck can cause 136,000 times more damage than a typical car”.

“As for long distance journeys, why wouldn't we want or need to make them? What an odd statement.”

They are mainly discretionary you don’t have to work 50 miles from home you don’t have to travel to Spain four a holiday you do it by choice and pay the cost and cause the pollution, you and I are causing most of the pollution.

Yes milk and vegetables as well as other goods were delivered to the cities next day because lorries were not available.
Rail transport is always subsidized, road transport is simply cheaper, in fact even air transport is cheaper than rail, wherever you are a cheap rail or bus ticket is being paid for from taxation.
Personally I believe we should have electrified rail connecting distribution hubs but successive governments have gone in the opposite direction because it costs less. If any rail expansion is done in the way HS2 has been organized we will go bankrupt first

I doubt the present railway system could take on all the freight currently on our roads.
I often wonder what tourists make of our railways.

When we used to work for the railways we used to travel round Europe with our free tickets. Used to feel ashamed when we got back to the UK and saw the state of our railways. Mind you, that was many years ago but not sure if things have improved that much. I’m sure it’s cheaper to travel by train just about everywhere else. As with a lot of things in the UK, because we were the first with many things because of the Industrial Revolution it’s all falling apart at the seams.

Well, David, I prefer to see my little grandchildren in person from time to time., so do need to travel long distances, one by rail, the other by plane...if that's ok with you, of course..
I'm astonished that you feel comfortable making sweeping statements about us not needing to travel. The four year old is pretty rubbish at WhatsApp calls.

Claremont

growstuff

grandMattie

Very sad. So much freight could go by rail and reduce the number of lorries on the road, pollution, numbe4 or ne2 roads…
There seems to be no real solution - or at least an affordable one. Nothing like the catastrophe that is HS2.

The problem is that freight would still need to be dropped off and picked up at big stations with enough space for loading and offloading and sorting. There would also need to be access roads to the stations. Logistically, it doesn't make sense.

Why? Just build freight stations outside major towns with good link system. It works.

Easier said than done! Land is scarce round many towns - as is the land required for the track. Near where I live is a disused station and track. With hindsight, it should never have been closed and people have looked at reinstating it. The problem is that the station site and car park now have blocks of flats on them and the old track is also partly built up. An awful lot of compulsory purchase would be needed - just look at what's happened with HS2.

Not only that but big supermarkets would still need to pick up their produce from the stations, so would need a fleet of vans, which would clog up local roads more then lorries would. The labour/time needed to load and unload would need to be factored in too.

growstuff

Maizie The Victorians also had branch lines all over the place, which enabled deliveries. Most of those branch lines disappeared years ago and have been re-purposed.

I do know that

The Victorians built more lines than necessary, railway development being something of a speculative bubble. But Beeching axed a great many lines which would be very useful today...

If any rail expansion is done in the way HS2 has been organized we will go bankrupt first

We will never go bankrupt, David. We're not a business or a household.

HS2 might be a vast white elephant, but it's economic activity and contributing to GDP.