Sexual harassment by men to women

So what if I started two threads?

shock horror TWO threads? Is it that unheard of?

I am seeing a counsellor, so I am working through things in a nice dignified and respectful way. Advice is appreciated, but rude comments saying I seem confused and the judgement saying that the two threads are about * s e x * are not really appreciated, polite, kind (or necessary)

I am wondering if you are working in a sector like social care, or maybe special needs?

Whatever it is, there must be workplace procedures surely.

You are a poster that has been on this forum for a while, so I wouldnt have thought you are saying anything untoward.

Advice is appreciated but I have deliberately not shared anything here that is private information about myself or maybe others, such as workplace procedures or my career direction. I already explained the very genuine reasons why I won't be sharing, so trying to guess is not going to work.

Thankyou for saying that I am not saying anything untoward.

I suppose I will accept the fact that I need to continue with the counselling.

What do you hope the counselling will achieve? It seems very relevant that both threads are about sex - one about the lack of it and the other about being sexually harassed.

Well, I think that in many ways it is coincidental seeing as the situation with my husband has been going on for twenty years, although telling my husband of the harassment that I reported did result in my husband's "confession", which I already wrote about.

What do I hope the counselling will achieve?
Well it's always good to talk in a safe, confidential and professional environment about things you would not tell people. I know it can provide clarity and help to reframe things. It can be helpful to feel that your feelings are understood and validated. It's always good to grow as a person and to learn new skills to help your relationships grow.

OnwardandUpward

I heard my boss referring to a man who "cannot" control himself around a woman so cannot be alone with that woman. I must admit, I've always thought that men could control themselves if they wanted to.

I bet he could control himself around a woman who could sack him!

I'm sorry but if he'd touched my bum he'd have had a knee to the groin or slapped face at least, especially if in public

Isn't a main reason the desire or need to feel powerful in some aspect of their life, especially if they have no assets to be proud of. ( Even men with high flying jobs can still feel low self esteem - especially if they have a powerful wife!)
I'm not condoning their behaviour - just trying to understand it.

I think it's power related, they are trying to dominate to make themselves feel superior Imo

I think that some men act like this for a variety of reasons...entitlement, narcissism, a displacement of responsibility, their own morality (or lack of), objectification of women, dominance.

I also find it interesting that quite often, nobody within a group of men will challenge the behaviour.
I saw this last year when out for a meal. A group of men (all appeared in their 50's / 60's), it appeared to be a birthday celebration from what I could overhear. One of them made several sexual comments to the waitress, the rest all found this highly amusing although it was obvious that the comments were upsetting.
They were drinking - none appeared to be 'drunk' although perhaps that's just my opinion.
As I left, I actually said to the group that I hoped they wouldn't be unhappy about a man speaking to their partner / daughter in that way.....only two had the good grace to look embarrassed!

This used to happen to me until my, now adult, daughter pointed out to me how 'nice' I was being to men I had just met. Being brought up to be a 'people pleaser' I hadn't cottoned on to the fact that some men (not all I hasten to add) take any pleasant chat as a come on! Have learnt my lesson now...

Of course a man can control himself if he wants, and I say that as a man. In my 70+ years I have known several women that I have taken a fancy to, I married two of them.

Hopefully, i have treated all of them with the respect they deserved, and didn't make a nuisance of myself.

Having said that, given what appears to be today's definition of harassment, I may have overstepped the mark occasionally by putting my arm around females, not just those i fancied, with no other intent than being friendly.

Different times

EEJit

Of course a man can control himself if he wants, and I say that as a man. In my 70+ years I have known several women that I have taken a fancy to, I married two of them.

Hopefully, i have treated all of them with the respect they deserved, and didn't make a nuisance of myself.

Having said that, given what appears to be today's definition of harassment, I may have overstepped the mark occasionally by putting my arm around females, not just those i fancied, with no other intent than being friendly.

Different times

I am in the same age group as you and dislike being touched by "friends" and would not have tolerated it ever. I would have politely removed myself and been less polite if the offender had persisted. its not just today's definition, just that women now are generally more "allowed" to be assertive. I have to say that I was brought up to find being assertive not a problem!

In my experience, men who have no boundaries are literally chancing their luck to see who responds and who doesn’t, so they can take it further. I came across a “groper” and I said to him “you have inappropriately touched me, I’m making a note of this, date and time, and who was present at the time” his face was a picture ….. and I encouraged my female staff to do likewise …… he soon stopped.

I have always just felt that a man who "tries something on with a woman" usually does it as a kind of compliment.

If I felt no desire to encourage them, I made this clear.

If a man couldn't or wouldn't take the hint, I took whatever action I felt suited the situation.

I have frequently told men to mind their tongues or that their language was disgusting, asked them to keep their hands to themselves and so on, If they really wouldn't comply a good slap on the face usually worked, or if we were at work, a complaint to the man's immediate superior.

Why bother trying to explain these men's behaviour to yourself?

They are bad-mannered, selfish boors, pure and simple.

I believe harrassment can happen for various reasons. Your best guide to being aware of a predator is your own intuition, your gut feeling at the time. It has served me well all my life.

Davisuz I found your answer so interesting. I was thinking that almost (or even all) the men who had made passes at me have been ones I fancied anyway. And the resulting dalliance although sometimes quite short and insubstantial was quite welcome. Then I realised that I do give out quite strong signals of not wanting close contact with most people. I don't generally want to be hugged or touched by people of either sex I meet and people must pick up on that.

Paddyanne when a student I worked in a factory in a section that was run by women. The only men who entered were engineers and their apprentices who serviced and fixed the machines. Some of the expressions and language used by the women to the men shocked me. The apprentices in particular were targets. It was a complete education for me.

“Making a pass” is quite different to groping or otherwise uninvited touching, and there’s no way it can be interpreted as a compliment, surely?

Greenlady102

I would hope, that any female I put my arm round, who found it objectionable would have said so.

None of this is new it was happening to me when I was 16. I was in my first job after leaving school and wasn’t used to being around men apart from my family males who were all lovely. The general manager tried to touch me up a few times you know an arm round a hug and try to kiss but I aways managed to move away until one day he caught me on the stairs and I couldn’t get away I wont go into detail suffice to say I was terrified but I managed to bring the stilleto heel of my shoe on his foot and bought it down hard he yelped and I got away. I went straight to the office manager told him what had happened and he said he wouldn’t mean anything he was just being friendly ……..I got my coat gathered my things together and walked out. My mother was shocked when I told her but didn’t believe me nobody did he was the boss. I never went back to that job but years later I met one of the girls I had worked with and she told me he was a Randy dirty pig who tried it on with all the girls and I was the first one to retaliate. I often wonder how he explained his bruised foot to his wife 😵‍💫

I agree with much of what has been said. However it has been a longstanding inigma to me why men think that grabbing a woman's boobs or genitalia are a turnon, especially in a public place like the office or a pub. Beyond belief,

EEJit

Greenlady102

I would hope, that any female I put my arm round, who found it objectionable would have said so.

possibly not

The aren’t many occasions when it’s ok to “put your arm round” a woman you’re not in any kind of personal relationship with. It doesn’t take much imagination to see that it puts the woman in an awkward and sometimes vulnerable position, and teaches women from a young age to be wary of even “well meant” touching.
Offering genuine non-sexual comfort or support where appropriate is a different matter and can be very welcome (and men are very good at it).

@fancy that . Your explanation has made me realise why I occasionally have a problem with the way my Son in Law acts towards women when he has been drinking.
He and my DD have been married for over 20 years and I’ve only seen this behaviour twice but he can become very Leary and makes sexual comments and innuendos to younger women . I once had it out with him at a party and we fell out for a while .
One of your comments made me realise that it was because I was from a family who would never have that sort of attitude towards women . My parents made sure that my brothers and I were brought up equally and had respect for all . My dad would never refer to any woman in such a manner and neither would my husband .
Son in Law’s father and brother are exactly like him though so to me it is down to your upbringing.