only daughter distanced herself and tgecwholecfamily followed suit.

Moving on, your comments about being heavily invested in my friends relationship and that it could me myself I am talking about. How you arrived at that conclusion on the 3 or 4 posts I made, I don't know, I don't need to justify my action, you are quick to judge. She is aware of the estrangement forum now, very much hope she gets the support she needs.

I didn't take your words out of context MovingOn or try to get them to fit into a different meaning

Your last paragraph in last nights' post of 22.05 is an example of the point I was making

You did take it all out of context. It's obviously clear. O agreed with agnurse post and indicated that AC knew her mother better than OPs claim of knowing her "friend," for 10 years. You took this and twisted it into your own narrative by saying and I quote:

Like agnurse you appear to be more than happy to associate sociopath behaviour with the mother in the case rather than her D

How is this response even correlated to any part of my post?

And no need to quote my last paragraph on last nights post of 22.05 as an example - for the original post that you took completely out of context was posted at 18.34 not 22.05. So your comment was made before you could extract a convenient example from a later post I made.

Nobody should be bullied/harassed/guilted/stalked or made to feel uncomfortable in any way, simply to participate in a relationship that they don't want to have, and cause another party is hurting over it's broken dynamics.

People have the right to end any relationship for any reason as they deem fit. Or are you advocating for her daughter to sacrifice hers and her entire families mental and emotional health just to keep one party - her mother happy? Or that she should continue to accommodate her, and make her mother happy in the manner that she (the mother wants) whether or not the daughter is happy? To prioritize her mothers happiness over her very own? Or what exactly is your main and exact point? She is NOT responsible for her mothers happiness, and there's too little background to call her a bully. And assuming she was truly a bully then why does her mother even want to be around her?

I'm glad she's rebuilding her life. One can't simply look through the broken lenses of the older individual. Her daughter may had broken lenses of her own and may need that distance to maintain hers a her families sanity.

Moving on, your comments about being heavily invested in my friends relationship and that it could me myself I am talking about. How you arrived at that conclusion on the 3 or 4 posts I made, I don't know, I don't need to justify my action, you are quick to judge. She is aware of the estrangement forum now, very much hope she gets the support she needs

You're absolutely right! You don't need to justify any of your actions to anyone. I also did not judge you. What I said was: "I just hope that this is not a personal script of your own life, but in third party narration" - so not exactly sure how you took this as a form of judgement towards you. I'm glad she's a part of a support group and hope she gets the help she needs.

I fell out with my mother in law for 3 years. I never ever stopped my husband taking both children to see her. Do not understand depriving all contact unless the person is abusive.

Peonyrose, your friend is very fortunate to have your understanding company. May be if you keep telling her she still has (whatever interests her or whatever she is good at) to live for she will absorb some hope for the future from what you say.

It's terrible for her that she has invested so much of herself in her daughter, and then this happened.

Another issue is the definition of abuse.
Some of the abusers justify it as disciplining or parenting.
Example (I don't mean to start a debate): spanking.
For the spanker (new word), it may be discipline, for the spankee (another new word), it is abuse.
Other issue is for some abusive parents, they did something with different intentions as it came across, so it is really abusive as they did not mean it that way.
Who is right? Does the parent override the child's view of events and the child's right to act accordingly?
No, it doesn't. I am sure the estranged person thinks it does.

Some people have different personas - they behave differently at home with their kids compared to people on the street compared to friends.

Just because you know somebody as a friend, it does not mean you know them 100% in any other context

Me too elizsnan I've had a difficult relationship with my m.i.l. for almost 39 years but would have never have considered cutting her out of our lives.

Wouldn't have done that to her, to our children and certainly would never have put Mr. S. in such a difficult situation.

You're right Hithere there are different definitions of abuse. An abusive parent for example may regard their behaviour as disciplining and an abusive EAC may see their behaviour as merely exercising their right to walk away.

Sadly my m.i.l. has experienced the pain that no contact brings, having been cut out of ES's life and the lives of 2 of her GGC.

You're right Hithere there are different definitions of abuse. An abusive parent for example may regard their behaviour as disciplining and an abusive EAC may see their behaviour as merely exercising their right to walk away

the manner in which some of these posts are twisted into something else makes me almost understand why some ACs cut their parents off. It's must be really exhausting to have to deal with some mindsets.

And I won't comment any further to this poster for you just have a way of playing with people as words/explanations and twisting them mean something completely different. The goal is typically to drive your point through and fixate that into someone's mind - complete mind games!

Who is right? Does the parent override the child's view of events and the child's right to act accordingly?

No they don't! But most of the estranged parents believe that they can. Examples of these cases are where an AC says that xy and z happened and they are accused of "recreating history," or "believing a lie," or having been brainwashed by their spouse to believe something else. Then they are branded as being "abusive," for they finally got the courage to walk away from their abuser AND their controlling mind games

Another element of narcissistic abuse! Lots of traits flying here, there and everywhere around here!

Some people have different personas - they behave differently at home with their kids compared to people on the street compared to friends

Exactly! Classic sociopaths as another poster mentions above. One has to at times live with some people to see them for their true colors, because they will always wear a mask and clothe themselves with an entirely different personality, every morning before they step put of their house. A lot of effort is normally put into keeping this ugly back at home, and waiting on their return.

Wow MovingOn2018 Very very disturbing posts from you. Have no idea what your background is but I think your issues lie deep and perhaps you are trying to move on from something and bringing it to the table here! Perhaps you aren't exactly 'moving on'

Maybe you need to start a new thread of your own?

I am not unsympathetic to your feelings but at the moment I am feeling sorry for Peonyrose who is a lot less complex and was just asking for some advice. To be given all this 'deep' probing must be upsetting to her t.b.h.

Peonyrose Non of us know for sure what the problem is but I stand by my previous comments - just continue to be a great friend and encourage her to move onwards and upwards. That is all you can do hon.

Wow MovingOn2018 Very very disturbing posts from you

If stating that people deserve to end any relationship that no longer makes them happy and reserve the right to be left alone is labelled as my posts being very very disturbing then some people had bigger issues than I thought they did. You cannot force your will on another persons life. Evidently this small fact isn't common sense to all. I'm not sure why some believe that they are entitled to be in other peoples lives, simply for they gave birth to them, and want a relationship irrespective of the emotional toil they may cause another. Totally unbelievable! But let's all sugar coat it to avoids stepping on peoples feelings.

Tedber would it be okay of I insisted on having some sort of relationship with you? Where or not you wanted to? I mean we get rid of friends, co-workers, spouses and everyone else - But somehow feel our children should put up with us for we are supposed to be one big family.

People are allowed to cut of that which makes them sin. Even if it were their very own hand. Remember that always!

You are responsible for your own happiness too, and ending a relationship and walking away (for any reason) is not a form of abuse.

MovingOn

I agree with much of what you say, nobody should stay in a toxic relationship, be it with your parents, spouse, siblings, or anyone. Some relationships reach the point of no return, and then, I agree, best to cut all ties.

But this has to be an absolute last resort, there’s a difference between someone being irritating, and someone ruining your life

If, for example, you dislike your in-laws, to the point of hating to be in the same room, you don’t have to see them, but why stop your partner and children seeing them?

I agree with your last paragraph particularly Sara65 - you can be kind to someone even if you don’t like or get on with them.

Exactly, Sara65, how can people hurt those they love by denying them contact with family?

But this has to be an absolute last resort

It is not for anyone to decide what somebody else’s last resort is.

Very rarely do I see it actually being the spouses fault. People just don’t like to admit that their child doesn’t want a relationship.

My Husband has CO his mother. I’ve drilled into him that this has to be a decision that he can live with. That if he wants a relationship with her then he is free to do what he wants.
I hate her so I’ll never facilitate anything and I myself never want to see her. But she’s nothing to do with me.

It's a pity MovingOn that rather than see that some of the examples you give of unacceptable behaviour from estranged P's and GP's can also in some cases be attributed to EAC, you can only see all EAC as the innocent victims of abusive parents.

It isn't twisting, it's having a more balanced and realistic point of view. AC are just as capable of creating emotional turmoil as their P's.

Why is there this constant rhetoric from some posters, who have not themselves been estranged, that puts all of the blame and responsibility on the parents?

I was thinking the same thing Tedber that it might be beneficial to a couple of the posters on this thread, to start their own thread, one from the perspective of estranging AC and their partners.

"Very rarely do I see it actually being the spouses fault", does that mean that there have been occasions when you have Bibbity or is your perspective coloured by your hatred of your m.i.l.?

Of course I have! Some people are just poison. Regardless of their age etc. Some are abusive and aim to isolate their partner.

However. I think the ratio is more an individuals decision than the partners.

I wouldn’t say my feelings towards my MiL affect me at all. I haven’t seen or heard from her in over 2 years.
Have you gotten along with every acquaintance, colleague or person you’ve encountered?
She is nothing to me. She has no affect on my life and her absence isn’t noted by me at all.

No Bibbity I haven't got along with everyone I've encountered in my life; who has? That said when it comes to a relationship with a family member, not getting along may be a reason to reduce contact or have none at all, but isn't a reason to prevent other family members from doing so; GC for example.

I would think that the ratio is 50/50 when it comes to the decision to go no contact. It's unlikely IMO that the opinion of a partner wouldn't have any impact on the decision though.

But she’s not my family. I’ve never CO anyone in my family but then again my family have never crossed the lines she has so I’ve thankfully never been put in that situation.

I agree that the partner can sway the decision. But as adults we have a choice. There is a lot that I would choose my husband over and that includes his happiness.

For the most part I agree that as adults we do have a choice but if someone's in an abusive and controlling relationship, that choice isn't necessarily their's to make.

I do firmly believe that in a case where a relationship was absolutely fine until the introduction of a third party, their influence cannot be underestimated.

I agree smileless

I’m fairly certain, that had I taken my mother in law too seriously, and wanted her out of our lives, my husband would have very reluctantly gone along with it, I would have been making him very unhappy, but I’m quite sure he’d have taken my side.

This probably happens a lot I would think

I'm very fond of my m.i.l. but when the boys were little she quite literally made my life hell. So much so that I didn't see her for 7 years.

They lived only 5 miles away and throughout that time
Mr. S. went to their house once a week (he worked with his dad) and the boys had regular visits.

He always took the boys over on Boxing day for tea which I did find hard.

It was our estrangement from our son that really cemented our relationship. Totally unexpectedly and not like her at all, she put her arms around me and cried for my pain and she still thanks me for the amount of time they got to spend with our boys. Far more than any of their other GC.

That’s lovely smileless,

Moving on, I never said that or posted at the time you say, that quote was by Smileless. O9/07 at 19.06,. So please get your facts right before commenting .
I am sorry Smileless I am not getting at you one bit, but for someone to make sweeping judgements and accuse you of something, not true, I did read all comments back and found the paragraph she referred to.
You don't have to be personally involved to have empathy,
Yes there are poor mothers, but they wouldn't be on here if they didn't care, they don't need snide and inaccurate comments from someone who sees fit to judge a situation that causes a lot of pain. how can you get any justice in anything in life if you can't talk about things, that's how wars start.