Racists in Reform UK! Shock horror!!!

Meandrogrog

Why do you want me to start a thread and have a sensible debate on what? I tend to try to avoid commenting on political threads now because in my view it has become a left wing echo chamber.

It's not necessary to start a thread and you don't need to in order to make a point. You can just as easily do that in this one.

I think you were being 'encouraged' to stick your neck out and start one to highlight the benefits of a future Reform government so that the party's opponents could either debate or attack them. Starting a thread is a bit of a commitment, you are unofficially compelled to continually return to it to defend your position, or at least acknowledge that you've bothered to read the comments... you might have other plans for the day.

If this is indeed a 'left-wing echo chamber', then that could be because the majority of posters on N&P threads are left-leaning which is, well, just the way it is. I understand it can be uncomfortable being a dissenting voice in an echo-chamber, but you have jumped in, so why not comment on some of the factual evidence of, for example, the sexist - and sometimes crude - comments made by would-be Reform councillors? I, for one, would like to know if this worries you - in terms of what a future Reform government might mean for women?

I'd also like to know how an ordinary Reform-voter feels about the possible 'deportation programme'. If you live in an area which is hosting hundreds of asylum seekers, your opinion might be more valid than those who live in the leafy suburbs which don't.

Personally, I think Farage is using the legitimate grievances of ordinary people in order to create a political environment that best suits his rather rich donors, backers and advisors - and himself. He wants to / intends to "shrink the state", this would affect many, if not most, of us on GN one way or another.

Healthcare is important to our demographic. Farage favours an insurance-based system and, though he explicitly points to the European models - economists and healthcare analysts warn that Reform's specific policies are more aligned with the mechanics of the US system of healthcare. Does it need to be pointed out the number of US citizens who are without cover because they simply can't afford it? How do you feel about this?

Maybe instead of simply accusing Farage's opponents of being 'lefties' (which might not be true anyway) - why not have the courage of your conviction and tell us how you think we will, as a country, be better off under a Reform-led government? That's what is being asked of you.

Whitewavemark2

It isn’t a question of Reform being taken over. They were racist from the start, that is why they have attracted all the dregs.

Precisely. It was never in doubt that racism is what early Reform-ers harnessed in order to appear to be a real party (it isn't, btw, but that's for another thread).

No. It is being called out.

As well it should be. It's a culture that belongs in the past, it is not the future of the UK and anyone who thinks this is acceptable should be called out and not be in public office.

Maremia

These are elected officials,
making disgusting comments,
even about their own female counterparts,
from a party claiming to protect women and children,
and the Reform leaders are trying to gloss over it,
using the same excuses that you are.
No. It is being called out.

👏👏👏👏👏👍👍👍🙂👍

And bad luck if they don’t like it!

Wonder how their own wives and daughters feel? I know how I’d feel and what I’d say to my own husbands or our sons!

yanda

Chocolatelovinggran....I've heard this kind of language spoke before. It's not exclusive to the Reform party. I agree its disgusting...go undercover in any pub with a group of blokes and you would no doubt hear this kind of language used.

That’s not really the point!

I think you know this, and actually when I started work initially I worked for quite a few years in a male dominated business, and I drank with them regularly and we were “comrades in arms” and some were considerably younger than myself, very rarely did I hear such gross comments!

These are elected officials,
making disgusting comments,
even about their own female counterparts,
from a party claiming to protect women and children,
and the Reform leaders are trying to gloss over it,
using the same excuses that you are.
No. It is being called out.

go undercover in any pub with a group of blokes and you would no doubt hear this kind of language used

I think they might suss me out very quickly!

Chocolatelovinggran....I've heard this kind of language spoke before. It's not exclusive to the Reform party. I agree its disgusting...go undercover in any pub with a group of blokes and you would no doubt hear this kind of language used.

How have they fared since their amazing successes in the local council elections?

That's all there is to go on so far, the promises about solving the immigration policy.
Could Reform actually achieve this?
One way to 'know' would be to examine other things they have promised to do, and have a close look at how successful that has been.

So much 'just talking to themselves' has somehow made it to page four.

What I do worry about is that the demography that is likely to support reform, do so because of the very poor life chances they have experienced throughout their life, and I am 100% certain that reform will never change these chances.

This demographics’ relationship to the economic system, where opportunity is so limited will not change because assuming that reform export all asylum seekers (less than 1%) it will make not a jot of difference either to the culture or life chances of the poor and or working/middle class.

Nothing will change.

Frankly it really worries me, because I suspect that the vast majority of reform supporters support the immigration policy, but have no idea about anything else, so their vote would mean that we are landed with some very dodgy domestic policy because of one policy they are offering.

I was commenting on the previous post (s) which just grumbled about "lefties".

With respect, that is not naming them.

Look, Reform are inviting us to vote for them, and that means every single aspect of our lives - our healthcare, our care for those most in need, access to decent MH and neurodivergent care, our Education for all our futures, the good management of natural resources like water and rail and energy, climate change and what it is doing to folks all over the world:

to a good foreign policy that works for our farmers and businessmen and women, counters the dangers from Russia and now the USA, to working properly on protection against abuse for women, children and vulnerable men...

These are valid queries, and it's not unreasonable to ask for more - what is your POV, do posters who support Reform actually know what they are?

I don't, but I could tell you Party and Lib dems on the same, broadly speaking, so would assume GN's speaking up for Reform can tell us a bit, not merely speak up against a more left wing POV

yanda, I was disconcerted by the Reform councillor who spoke about a female colleague, saying that he would " sniff her chair" and " if she gave me a hug, I would definitely finger her".
I'm not sure what I could say about this man that would not be " unkind".

I've seen plenty of unkind descriptions on this forum.

Whst other policies are worth considering?

So that is supporting reforms immigration policy.

Please say more, I'm interested.

To describe a human as a parasite or cockroach seems rather unkind.

Ok then I'll post this...what does the word parasite mean? ... is it to describe something that lives off the back of a host? Plenty of that going on in my home town.

Maremia

Surely they must now lose more of their support.

Probably attract more, unfortunately.

Meandrogrog

greyfur16

Meandrogrog

Why compare N F with Hitler just for trying to save our country?

Please start a thread and let's have some sensible debate. The site is carefully monitered by the mods.

Why do you want me to start a thread and have a sensible debate on what? I tend to try to avoid commenting on political threads now because in my view it has become a left wing echo chamber.

I also have no intention of trying to defend NF and getting a whole barrage from some posters.

Also I know the mods monitor posts, it sounds like a threat but I have posted nothing offensive.

Well said Meandrogrog and they are indeed very goady posts. Which is why they are not worth responding to as is obvious with this one as they are just talking to themselves! 😉

What would be useful from my point of view would be a thread started by a supporter of reform outlining the reasons for their support.

I have real difficulty in understanding why people support reform. So am very open to gaining more knowledge.

You have posted nothing offensive Mean.
If you did, or if others posted such against you, then the Mods would deal with it.