Burnham - rejoin Europe in one shape or form?

LemonJam

It was a staggeringly daft, inept decision of Cameron to hold the referendum in the first place. Total carnage and damaging result for the country over a wafer thin majority where the consequences and £costs of leaving were not known to many who voted.

He opened the door for ridiculous propaganda- like the bus etched in memory that the NHS will receive £x millions extra every week if we vote leave- not! The majority of the population regrets the decision to leave. Polls show if the vote was repeated today there would be a clear majority voting to stay, as posed to the wafer thin vote to leave in 2026.

AB is bold to call out the adverse consequences of leaving and how this will continue to adversely impact the UK in years to come. He's nailed that flag to the mast. He knows the UK must work with the EU over the next 3 years.

Voters can decide what EU relationship they wish for at the next GE when all parties make clear their stance.

However two reasons why he did;

Farage lobbied and lobbied, Cameron severely underestimated public opinion.

However, much as some refuse to acknowledge, the campaign waged by Farage, was both misleading and inaccurate.

Had the result been a vote within Parliament, for example, it would have too close to declare an outright “winner”.

There were no “winners” in the end sadly.

Whitewavemark2

It is without question that Brexit has made our country poorer and those businesses that trade with the EU - of which it is almost certainly the majority, less profitable.

What a staggeringly daft decision that was, and what a staggeringly inept load of politicians both for and against we had the misfortune to have at the time.

I agree!

Sarnia

The EU is not the EU we voted to leave.

The far right, AdF are making great strides in Germany and Marine Le Pen is 36% ahead of her rivals to win the French Presidential election next year. Do we want the UK to follow suit?

Last year our GDP was higher than France, Italy and Germany so why do we need to rejoin the EU?

Europe are our allies and in this increasingly uncertain world we need to work together where defence is concerned but to go cap in hand and rejoin, NO!

I certainly agree, not to go “cap in hand!)

vegansrock

Bre - entry - bring it on!

eazybee

Burnham is throwing out all sorts of backward-looking suggestions from the 1970s rather than confronting the very real and present dangers facing Britain; gauging the response and calculating what will bring him, not the country, the greatest benefit.

The EU is certainly not what it was; it is declining rapidly and its influence is waning as the organisation fractures. The cost of rejoining and the conditions Britain would have to accept would be colossal.
I do not believe we have seen the real Andrew Burnham yet. He is treading very cautiously knowing he is only PM because of the support of an extremely treacherous cabinet.

In which ways is AB attempting to take us back into the 1970’s? He was only born in 1970 and will barely remember any political events form when he was 1 to 10 years old.

I can only think of two parties attempting to do this!

sundowngirl

One of the main reasons Brexit ended up the way it did was although 17.4 million people voted to leave, the overwhelming majority of MPs sitting in Parliament at the time had backed Remain.
The split was 485 Remain to 162 Leave.
Parliament was being asked to deliver something most of Westminster never wanted in the first place. Because of that, it was never going to be the "hard" Brexit that many people thought they were voting for.
The public voted Leave. Westminster largely didn’t.

People had very little idea what they did want. When asked it was clear that there was a massive knowledge gap.

We did in fact get a ‘hard’ Brexit except for the GFA and a trade agreement that prevented the U.K. from having to comply with WHO rules.

Not sure how much harder you wanted it😄. As it were!

A national discussion about rejoining ( which I favour) is likely to be turned into a polarising row by Farage which risks engulfing many other improvements Labour has proposed. Burnham needs to think carefully about the EU and the risks to other policies.

"People had very little idea what they did want"

How very rude dismissing 17.5 million people as ignorant!!

I suppose the rest were highly educated and very knowledgeable.

i didn't want to join the common market as it was in the first place so voted "out" in the referendum.
i really hope we don't rejoin - the eu isn't what it used to be and it cost us so much when we were "in".
we can't really afford to rejoin.
Andy Burnham has a lot on his plate right now especially his talk of ending the triple lock but that's another story (and one i feel will lose his party many of us "grey voters").
let's hope it IS all talk.

Before you all get carried away with the idea, irrespective of whether you are in favour of it, or not, you might just stop to remember that at the time brexit became a reality, it was made quite clear that either you are in the EU or you are out.
You cannot leave, decide it was a mistake and come back in, just like that.

What makes you think we want you back?

We are getting along nicely without you, whether you believe it or not.

sundowngirl

"People had very little idea what they did want"

How very rude dismissing 17.5 million people as ignorant!!

I suppose the rest were highly educated and very knowledgeable.

No that wasn’t my opinion. That was from studies and surveys carried out.

In fact it cast no aspersions on the voter - rather on the politicians for failing to inform the public.

AuntieE

Before you all get carried away with the idea, irrespective of whether you are in favour of it, or not, you might just stop to remember that at the time brexit became a reality, it was made quite clear that either you are in the EU or you are out.
You cannot leave, decide it was a mistake and come back in, just like that.

What makes you think we want you back?

We are getting along nicely without you, whether you believe it or not.

Yes that is why my opinion is that re-entry is the least likely option st present (although things do change) however, closer working is pretty certain, and talks are taking place.

I can't see the EU lasting that much longer. Open borders and freedom of movement not such a good idea after all?

They can't cope with illegal immigration.

Quite a few of their so called member states now want to make their own laws and decisions. Plus all the big Economic and Structural developments grants have disappeared.

No.longer the Gravy Train it once was. But still there to serve the European Elite and vested interests. Corruption hardly unknown.

A trading union block would be good idea. Which was the original.purpose of the Common Market.

Keep the EHIC. And ditch the not fit for purpose and very out dated ECHR.

We elect a government to take difficult decisions on our behalf.

Listening to Burnham’s speech, there can be little doubt left that he intends to do just that, and I don’t think anyone would deny that he is extremely ambitious regarding the country’s welfare and success.

Three salient matters made by others on this thread, Europe is moving to the right, not just right of centre. but far right in the case of the ADF the changing political landscape is going to look very different than it was in 2016.

The EU's growth isn't significantly better than ours, in some cases worse. Germany's car industry is in the doldrums shafted by all the Chinese car imports. Germany has a history of turning inwards and becoming fiercely nationalistic particularly when they experience economic downturns.

I'm agreeing with the point Oreo made up thread, many countries make unilateral decisions to suit themselves. Eastern Europe have gone their own way in retaining their mono cultures, in fact worse than that it seems that they can't even assimilate the one non European ethnicity, The Roma people who have been with them for literally centuries and who they treat as pariahs.

Many European countries, even those who would previously have been considered more liberal, Denmark and Sweden, are exercising very stringent controls as to illegal migration and deportations. We on the other hand are far more tolerant as to live and let live. No rulings against extreme dress burkas etc. Nor, I imagine would be go down the route of Denmark in expecting their migrants to adopt the Danish ideal and should "not ghettoise" themselves and to assimilate in all aspects of an established western society.

Of course it would be ideal if could be a trading block and work closely with Europe on many fronts. However, I think some of the old guard, Macron, not that he's got much longer at the helm now and Tusk, remember him "A Special Place in Hell for Brexiteers" are too angry with Britain to offer any terms that wouldn't be punitive.

Let’s wait and see.

Closer working - defence - almost essential.

Closer working - trade - pretty likely

Re+entry- at this point - unlikely.

There was so much wrong with the EU referendum and the campaigns run by both sides.
It is true that the EU now is less united politically and less strong economically. But the UK absolutely needs to be a proper integrated member, with influence over the rules by which it is run, including defence agreements.
I hope the UK will rejoin in my lifetime. I'm 81 and will go on campaigning as long as I can.

sundowngirl

"People had very little idea what they did want"

How very rude dismissing 17.5 million people as ignorant!!

I suppose the rest were highly educated and very knowledgeable.

Of course 😂the other side in any discourse usually are ( not)

Whitewavemark2

Let’s wait and see.

Closer working - defence - almost essential.

Closer working - trade - pretty likely

Re+entry- at this point - unlikely.

That’s about my thinking too

So Burnham lied to the people of Makerfield, when he told them this was not on the agenda.

Personally, I take everything Burnham says with a massive pinch of salt!

I think with Burnham it’s a touch of the Emporer’s new clothes

I’m with Wyllow - Go, Burnham, go. No referendum. New negotiations, new deal.

Two questions.
Will the open door system for immigration apply, i.e. will all those immigrants who have been accepted in Europe now be free to come over here ?
Will we have to give up our English pound and adopt the Euro?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

So Burnham lied to the people of Makerfield, when he told them this was not on the agenda.

No. Re-joining is not on the agenda - there is no lie.

But there is no doubt that Brexit has as Burnham said “done more harm than good”

Burnham is keen to see what the public want.

Politico is amongst others that say that polls, studies etc find that closer working is wanted by over 70% of people, so if Burnham is listening as he says, then closer working should be explored.

Those seeking greater control of immigration will welcome this. Businesses will welcome this, employees and employers will welcome this as well as universities amongst many others,