Why the moral panic?

dayvidg Thu 13-Aug-26 14:41:30

And what happened to the existing population when the Vikings arrived?

That's a fascinating question. The history of Britain stretches back hundreds of thousands of years, with many waves of people arriving, mixing. So who was "before the Vikings, and before those before the Vikings"?

In broad order before and after the Vikings.

1. Early human species
2. Neanderthals
3. Mesolithic hunter-gatherers
4. Neolithic farmers
5. Bell Beaker/Bronze Age migrants
6. Iron Age Celtic tribes
7. Romans
8. Anglo-Saxons
9. Vikings
10. Normans

Each group disrupted the previous group to some extent but also gave new skills, mew perspectives, etc. It's also important to note that these groups didn't simply wipe each other out. In many cases they mixed with existing populations. Modern people in the UK typically have ancestry from several of these waves, with proportions varying by region. For example, Welsh populations often retain more ancestry linked to earlier Britons, eastern England tends to show more Anglo-Saxon ancestry, and areas such as Orkney and Shetland have particularly strong Norse (Viking) ancestry.

JaneJudge Thu 13-Aug-26 12:09:21 Thank you!

But we interpret the present in relation to the past differently that is the problem.

Wyllow3

I totally agree. I vape and get mine from a well established chain Mirage where they wouldn't dream of breaking the law and give responsible advice.

Ditto barbers. some great shops - great. cuts, good value, mixed customers. We didn't grumble about Indian restaurants, why grumble because Turkish blokes specialise?

Simple, prosecute criminality. Report shops that sell to youngsters.

Oh, and btw, pub life in some parts of any town have been at the heart of under the counter/black market stuff since time immemorial. ditto friendship/area networks with a plus plus
why not call them out as well?

I'm being "classist"?

No way. Look at fraudulent or borderline money advice given to the more wealthy by private individuals "helping out"

You think white middle class is free of illegal activities?

This is so true Wyllow3- white middle, lower and upper class illegal activities take place and also includes under the counter black market and tax evasion activities.

Neither housing, criminality, economic, infrastructure or any other problems and challenges the UK faces can be said to be the sole or main fault of the numbers that arrive in the UK seeking asylum or those that arrive through regular immigration channels. .

No party, government or country has to date ever been able to stop people legally seeking asylum. Countries can only determine how to legally manage asylum seeker arrivals, processing etc.

DAR raised some key, helpful questions of debate at 11.58 and JaneJudge responded at 12.09 summarising the importance of integration:

“Integration

Balancing economic needs with social cohesion involves managing both the pace of change and public perception. Cohesion thrives when local communities feel that growth is managed, fair, and accompanied by adequate resources. Public confidence typically increases when migration is seen as part of an organized, rule-based system that benefits the host community while supporting the integration of new arrivals through language proficiency and community engagement”.

Personally I would likely to see speedy processing of asylum seekers, speedy deportation of those not found eligible and plans to ensure cohesion and integration of those that are granted asylum. Any government that works towards this goal of whatever political persuasion would get my vote.

Hmm.

Romans destroyed the indigenous civilisations of Britain and imposed their own social rule, with themselves as the privileged. Boudicca revolt was finally sparked by their entitled rape and murder within her tribe.

Anglo Saxons to some extent entered an abandoned land. They established themselves as the chief heir archly and enthralled the remain indigenous people.

Vikings raided for many years before settling mainly in the North. They were held there by fierce fighting in a country riven by war.

Normans, like Romans before them, completely destroyed the social structures of both Anglo Saxon and Viking civilisation. They took possession of all land and people and enslaved them in serfdom.

I don’t find your examples encouraging 🙄

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnneReturns asylum seekers (who have not got permission to work) have been in recent months found working as food delivery drivers, working in nail bars, vape shops and many other businesses.

BBC and other main stream organisations have made documentaries on the above.

In our High Street, we have had Border Force raids and people removed from Indian (Bangladeshi) and Turkish Restaurants along with two nail bars.

This is wrong and should be investigated and there are huge fines for employers employers those here, whether “legally” or “illegally”. Whilst the numbers of such people working illegally has undoubtedly risen, this isn’t a new thing and has gone on in our own you try, particularly in cries, and in other countries, for many decades.

Sorry ….huge fine for employers employing….

DaisyAnneReturns Thu 13-Aug-26 15:39:49

' In many cases they mixed with existing populations. Modern people in the UK typically have ancestry from several of these waves, with proportions varying by region.'

Did they 'mix' with existing populations? Would the ancestry results be the same if all the Anglo-Saxon genes will solely passed down via the female line?

Sorry - were passed down

LemonJan Wyllow3

Whataboutery regarding crimes committed by British people add nothing to a thread about asylum seekers.

Cossy yes they were fined, and in the two restaurants cases splashed all over the front of the local paper.

One restaurant owner just shrugged and said it was part of business nowadays…

GrannyGravy13

LemonJan Wyllow3

Whataboutery regarding crimes committed by British people add nothing to a thread about asylum seekers.

Just because a truth is inconvenient doesn’t mean it’s whataboutery. If some posters continually ‘other’ asylum seekers then it’s completely relevant to state that such behaviour is not unique to them.

Yes they mixed with existing population in that the conquering males bred with the conquered females as their right with slaves, thralls or serfs.

Females of the conquered were guarded from that and their partners were chosen by whoever had charge of them. That would almost never be a conquered male.

Suitable males would be brought from the homeland if none were available in situ.

Occasionally there are fables of star crossed lovers.

Females of the conquerors

Tuliptree I am well aware that crime happens 🤦‍♀️

I am also aware of local (to me) illegal workers as I explained upthread ⬆️

Are you alleging that the BBC has othered asylum seekers by revealing in their documentaries the extent of their illegal working practices and those who employ them?

Interesting analysis, Lathyrus. Is this 1,000 year period your specialist subject?

You are putting words in my mouth I have not said that at all

Tuliptree

You are putting words in my mouth I have not said that at all

I was replying to you post today of 17.00

Sorry not to have got back, but spent the day sailing around the coast - just glorious in this weather!!

I’ll read the thread forthwith.

GrannyGravy13

LemonJan Wyllow3

Whataboutery regarding crimes committed by British people add nothing to a thread about asylum seekers.

You may think that but I disagree. We are allowed to note that just as there is a criminal element of those seeking to immigrate or seek asylum in the UK whcih posters mention also mention that the indigenous white population has a criminal element too.

If it's a red herring or deflection one way it's a red herring or deflection in the opposite direction.

Whitewavemark2

Sorry not to have got back, but spent the day sailing around the coast - just glorious in this weather!!

I’ll read the thread forthwith.

Oh that sounds bliss!

GG13 16:54

I’m jolly glad that they were fined, but clearly not a deterrent!

To employ anyone illegally is bad enough, but often these immigrants are not only here and working illegally, but not treated well and probably paid way below minimum wage. Not only that but no income tax nor NI being paid and I simply don’t approve of that!

Crackdowns of these kind of black market activities and money laundering are welcome!

Cossy I totally agree.

We no longer eat in or get a takeaway from that restaurant.

It's a sine qua non that we examine crime from asylum seekers in relationship to what crime is defined as and enacted by the population as a whole.

By singling out part of the inhabitants of the UK not just by race or country of origin of the alleged wrong-doer:

but also - and this is the key point - by the exact types of crime for examination as well as crimes in different classes:

We cannot view problems and solutions as a whole.

Aveline

Migrants that are either directly recruited by eg NHS or who come here via legal channels are welcome. These boatloads of young men with no paperwork are not.

Agreed