Why the moral panic?

Migrants that are either directly recruited by eg NHS or who come here via legal channels are welcome. These boatloads of young men with no paperwork are not.

Aveline

Migrants that are either directly recruited by eg NHS or who come here via legal channels are welcome. These boatloads of young men with no paperwork are not.

Exactly this👏👏👏👏.

No papers, no proof of qualifications, no access to criminal records.
Some figures claim as many as 98% arrive without documentation.

It’s not a good starting point is it?

You only consider it “nonsense” because you disagree but as you state “thread after thread” is started about (illegal) immigrants then that demonstrates the strength of feeling against what is happening.

The comment “is it that the haters have to hate” is extremely over the top. I have never seen anyone on here say they hate the people coming here. It has been explained countless times that no ill feeling is felt towards those who come or came here legally to work and pay their dues and start new lives. None whatsoever but people do feel very strongly that people coming from a safe country - France - and destroying their documents are a different kettle of fish as we know nothing about them and it is a genuine fear. People all over the country have had enough.

Just a reminder that we have very large numbers of Chinese, Ugandan Asians, West Indians etc in this country who you never hear anything negative about now because they came here legally, worked hard, raised families and contributed to the country.

If you read the OP without your subjective spin, you will find that I have agreed that immigration is a problem.

What I am arguing is that it needs to be dealt with a degree of levelheadedness, that is frequently not shown on these threads.
Instead stoked by people like Farage and the right wing media, choosing to panic about a group of people you have identified as a threat to our way life your reaction is so much greater than the actual danger

Why the moral panic? As outlined in numerous other threads, it's kind of going over the same old ground:

Given we do have an aging population that isn't being replenished, most of the western world does. Coupled with the fact shortage of housing. Conflate the two and therein lies one factor. It's hard to go forth and multiply when one can't get a roof over their head. Priced out! Both in owning or renting.

We do need migration, but it needs to be targeted where required. As Andy Burnham has noted, we don't need more questionable barbers or vape shops on the high street. Furthermore, we need to train our own people particularly in the medical profession and whilst we have marvellous doctors, nurses and other medics from overseas sometimes they are being procured a) because it's cheaper than training our own and b) at the expense of where they've been trained and probably needed from wherever they've emanated.

I think moral outrage is justified when an asylum seeker commit serious crimes such as rape. Can anyone say they aren't outraged by the murder of a young woman stabbed through the head umpteen times with a screwdriver leaving her for dead, with a 5 year old son who will have scant memory of a mother taken from him.

Finally, immigration via asylum. Once their claim is granted we can never be sure of the background. Amongst their number Iran will have planted sleeper cells and that will only come to light if they're successful in their endeavours.

I'm not a supporter of Farage by the way. Right now my thoughts are to see how Burnham fares. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.

Aveline

Migrants that are either directly recruited by eg NHS or who come here via legal channels are welcome. These boatloads of young men with no paperwork are not.

Please can we have legal routes?

I have been very grateful for the medical staff from overseas recently, then again the NHS has been actively recruiting from abroad since at least the 1970’s.

I am also well aware that it is impossible to apply to live/work here from some countries, therefore the only option is to rock up on our shores.

I have been a migrant in another country as have my family, we learnt the language and respected their traditions and way of life. Also when visiting a country for the first time, I do my due diligence as to the customs and social no no’s of that country.

I think that people who are looking at the migrant problem from a position of not having a large influx of asylum seekers close to their homes are not fully aware of what it is like to live with groups of young men just hanging around. I and many female friends and family (of all ages) have experienced cat calling, rude gestures and feeling uncomfortable when walking past these groups.

It is a fact that many of the men arriving on these boats have a different opinion of women, and are unlikely to change their views.

I am also uncomfortable with the people traffickers charging large sums of money and instructing them to destroy their paperwork. If they have nothing to hide, why destroy documentation which could help their claim for asylum?

There is and never has been any hate from me, nor am I a racist, which is banded about the minute a poster does not open their arms and welcome all…

Excellent post TerriBull 👏👏👏

Migrants that are either directly recruited by eg NHS or who come here via legal channels are welcome

I even saw a post yesterday or the day before still not getting that.

Why oh why?

Think people have had more than 6 years on that point.

The proportion of people coming a cross in boats is insignificant compared with those coming in ;egally.

While illegal immigrants must indeed be returned to their homelands, the far bigger question that arises is why have successive governments not dealt with these problems earlier with proper manpower planning and funding the higher education system to concentrate on training young people for the professions we are short of so that we do not need so many legal immigrants.

With illegal immigrants we need to do what we can to resolve the causes that lead them to flee their country. Of course most of them are young men. Most of these immigrants come from countries and cultures where there can be be no question of women travelling alone. The obvious risks to them are too obvious to explain.

But coming here is not a casual decision. Think about it, how awful would conditions in Britain have to be for you to send your 16-20 year old son or grandson, off on a journey that is fraught with danger, the cost of which means you have sold everything you own plus borrowed extensively from family and gone into debt with criminals to achieve.

He will not be travelling economy class from his own country to us. He will be making a journey where at any point , if he is caught, he could be tortured, killed or just disappear. He will walk for miles through inhospitable landscape, take dangerous sea journeys on small boats, the channel is not the only small boat crossing. You will see him go not knowing whether you will ever see him again. How bad would problems at home be for you to be prepared to send your son or grandson on that journey?

I absolutely agree that illegal immigrants must go home, but think about who, why and how they come here and think about what we should be doing to make this horrendous often fatal journey the best that any young man can hope for.

Things on immigration were all perfectly fine before about 1998.
Then I think it was Blair who decided to really mess things about.
Changed multiple laws.

If I am completely honest, I don't want to be cared for by a male illegal immigrant. It is a bizarre argument to put forward. I want to be cared for by a trained professional, female preferably.

To date fewer than 15K people have arrived in the UK this year by small boat. This is a drop of 43% compared with the same period as last year. This government is making more progress than the previous government did in 14 years, yet this seems to go unnoticed.
In the year ending March 2026, the UK recorded a total of 39,000 overall returns (including enforced and voluntary departures), of which roughly 11,900 involved individuals who had lodged an asylum claim. Under the specific "one in, one out" arrangement with France, 1,087 small-boat migrants were returned to France up to June 2026. (GOV data) This government is returning more failed asylum seekers than the previous government did in 14 years but again it seems to go unnoticed!

We need to build more houses, especially social housing. We need better infrastructure and better services that support our population when we are sick, old or disabled. We need people working and paying tax. We need better education for our children and more opportunities for our school leavers. Yet, some think that the decreasing numbers of people arriving by small boat are the source of the problems facing the UK. Well, they are not and if small boats stopped arriving completely, we would find nothing would change except the availability of a convenient scapegoat!

Last paragraph should read ....what we should be doing to STOP this horrendous often fatal journey being the best......

Primrose53

Just a reminder that we have very large numbers of Chinese, Ugandan Asians, West Indians etc in this country who you never hear anything negative about now because they came here legally, worked hard, raised families and contributed to the country.

Absolutely. 👏👏👏👏
My dad’s carers all Asian were fantastic with him.
Every last one of them came to his funeral, not the Church, but at least the cremation.
I’ll never forget the kindness & compassion they showed to him, mum & I 😊

If it is a moral pain then it is a long one, people have been telling various governments for well over a decade. They chose not to listen, that was never a tactic that was ever going to work.

Aveline

Migrants that are either directly recruited by eg NHS or who come here via legal channels are welcome. These boatloads of young men with no paperwork are not.

Exactly.

Thanks for the post WWM2.

I think controlled immigration is a good thing and certainly contributes in a positive way to our NHS etc. Those from abroad apply to immigrate, pay large sums of money and go through all the channels. I do not have a problem with controlled immigration.

Arrival of asylum seekers impacts on us but realistically they are going to come, that won't change and they have a legal right to do so. Every person globally has a legal right to seek asylum under the 1951 Refugee Convention. It is therefore impossible to be an illegal asylum seeker as entitled to make application and demonstrate eligibility. Once process if not eligible they then become an illegal immigrant and subject to removal. The processing, housing during the application process etc costs money and causes resentment in communities. We have posts debating the resentment when asylum seekers are paced in their community but they do need to be housed, fed and watered whilst processed. The question is where and how etc.

Those that come to the UK seeking asylum come the way they do because the UK insists they must be on UK soil in order to claim asylum. Asylum seekers are simply not able to apply for asylum from their own countries, or from any other country en route. Thus they make an irregular journey in order to get their feet on British soil. Thus they are not legal asylum seekers but irregular arrivals and the UK stipulates they must make themselves known to Border force so they can be processed. The term given to them "illegal immigrants' is emotive as they are rather legally seeking asylum in the via the UK application route.

So asylum seekers must get on UK soil first, we are an island so they usually come on a boat. There will always be people seeking asylum- no political party will ever change that. All countries not facing famine, persecution or wars will have asylum seekers, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK, EU countries etc. All those countries manage asylum seeker arrivals and processes in a way their government determines. None have found a simple solution or a solution that does not cost money. There has never been an agreement or law that each of all those countries has a quota and must accept their quota. France has no legal duty since we left the EU to accept and process asylum seekers that are en route to seek asylum in England. France has said emphatically it would not take any asylum seekers the UK Royal Navy seeks to take to France and are not legally required to do so.

So the issue is how to manage the problem once asylum seekers arrive in any country to make their application or during their journey en route. If there was a was a simple solution, other countries and the UK would have found it. No simple solution exists.

Labour have their policies and the Conservatives had theirs. Reform has come up with Operation Fortress etc. just bare proposals at the moment, not costed or risk assessed and not in Government. Moore of a manifesto type calling card.

A debate comparing the various actual tried and tested ways to manage asylum seekers in the UK - e.g Labour versus Conservatives we can base on facts and figures to deem which more successful and cost effective. There was a separate thread discussing the pros and cons of the Reform UK proposal.

We know that asylum seekers have legal rights because of appeals cases, Supreme Court cases etc reported in the press. No government has ever been able to take away asylum seekers legal rights anywhere in the world. Even robust ICE activity has not taken away their legal rights and appeals and court cases inevitably follow.

There is no easy answer. I'm not sure emotional feelings versus facts/figures and rational feelings in Gransnet posts will change on the asylum seeker issue?

foxie I agree.

It appears to be a concerted political party scare tactic ... last seen during the Brexit referendum and probably from the same source.

Oh, wait, isn't there a certain by-election pending...

I don’t know about moral panic, but the sheer amount year on year for a long time now of mainly young men coming over on small/ big boats is a very real worry and a drain on the nation’s finances.
As others say, it’s not like legal migration at all, it’s not knowing anything about them, do they have any real skills, do they have criminal records? Coming quite often from very different cultures especially where women, girls and dress are concerned.

People have been voting to reduce immigration for over a decade. The only blip in this vote was Starmers Labour win, and that was mostly due to fury at the tories ineptitude at doing what they promised.