Andy Burnham won Makerfield

I agree with you, spabbygirl. I quite like Starmer, but he's been briefed against from the very start and, as you say, he doesn't have the charisma to fight the opposition. I can't imagine that Thatcher or Blair in their early years would have put up with half of what Starmer has.

The Labour government's PR has been appalling. They have actually achieved a whole list of changes. Obviously some people won't like those changes, but they have actually achieved some of the things they promised to do and which people voted for.

Starmer lacks charisma and I think he should have ditched Rachel Reeves months ago. Some of the ministers are, in my opinion, strange choices.

I don't think people voted for specific changes, they voted against the Tories, that is a very different thing.

GemmaMack

The triple lock should definitely go

I don’t agree but I do think this could be considered if the personal allowance was raised and possibly a lower tax rate for first £15,000 of taxed income.

Sadly yes, charisma takes leaders a long way these days. John Major suffered the same attacks because he was seen as boring, but social media wasn’t all powerful then.

It scares me how much influence it has now, particularly when we know it in turn is influenced by foreign disrupters.

CatsWhiskas

I agree with you, spabbygirl. I quite like Starmer, but he's been briefed against from the very start and, as you say, he doesn't have the charisma to fight the opposition. I can't imagine that Thatcher or Blair in their early years would have put up with half of what Starmer has.

The Labour government's PR has been appalling. They have actually achieved a whole list of changes. Obviously some people won't like those changes, but they have actually achieved some of the things they promised to do and which people voted for.

Starmer lacks charisma and I think he should have ditched Rachel Reeves months ago. Some of the ministers are, in my opinion, strange choices.

👏👏👏👏👏 Not so fussed about Charisma, Blair and Johnston had it in spades 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

But why oh why he’s kept RR in post I’ll never know, the whole Mandelson appointment was ill thought out and disastrous and there are one of two other suspect appointments.

I’ve given up second guessing any MP and PM now and just waiting to see what happens now.

All of our political parties appear to be a shitstorm during the few decades, hey cannot even behave like grown adults half the time!

Mollygo

Referring to the post from Maggiemaybe including the quote from Doodledog
Probably KS’s best demonstration of his ability, was his meeting with DT. So Foreign Secretary would sound like a good choice.

The opportunities for attack by the media against a new PM will hopefully not include any of the errors made by KS. Though we have seen a frenzy whipped up even over a pair of glasses, so who knows.
The hasty limitations of declarations like the Waspi issue mentioned above may mean he thinks before he speaks.
Whatever happens, Maggiemaybe’s last paragraph, be absolutely true.

^Whatever the rights and wrongs of this particular cause, it does illustrate that should he succeed in his ambition to be top dog, Burnham would be under exactly the same restraints that have shackled Starmer.^

Absolutely spot on!

Maggiemaybe

Sadly yes, charisma takes leaders a long way these days. John Major suffered the same attacks because he was seen as boring, but social media wasn’t all powerful then.

It scares me how much influence it has now, particularly when we know it in turn is influenced by foreign disrupters.

What I should have said was, we didn’t have all powerful social media then. The first I remember using was Friends Reunited (around the turn of the century?). Ah, those innocent days!

I think the British public has to decide if they want a rabble rouser/crowd pleaser/joker as PM or a serious politician for what are serious times. I don't remember many of the PMs in my younger years worrying about charisma etc. They got on with the job, not always to my liking, but that's political life. KS has spent his whole working life measuring every word and doesn't go in for the TV type Court room dramas. I suspect, if he is ousted, he will re-emerge in a high profile role in the international arena.

How long now before the ‘media’ find something about AB to pick on? That will be the reality and is the great danger in changing prime minister.

AB’s victory is impressive but should be tempered by the fact that the other parties sat on their hands.

They’ve been trying to dig the dirt on Burnham for months already, seeing this coming.

He’s been a highly popular and successful Mayor for nine years, and was an MP/minister for 16 years before that, so he isn’t inexperienced, he has an impressive track record in fact.

I’m not his greatest fan as a result of the way he’s behaved to achieve his PM ambition, but I wouldn’t underestimate him - and I doubt his adversaries are doing.

A post earlier said something about being pleased that Reform didn’t come anywhere.
Well they came second so they most certainly did come somewhere !

Interesting times. Starmer has insisted he’s not going anywhere and would most certainly stand if there’s a leadership challenge.

As a pensioner I would love the triple lock to remain but as a UK citizen who is concerned about the economy then it should go. Maybe the money saved could go towards increasing the personal tax allowance for everyone ?

Let's hope he stops the exodus of the wealthy and bringing in low earners, a gcse in economics tells you that's not a good idea.

That was me, talking about the result in Aberdeen South where Reform came nowhere, JenniferEccles, not about Makerfield.

We hear a lot about Andy Burnham in 'greater manchester' (where most of us are nowhere near manchester) and really he's only all for improving the lot of the actual residents of just in manchester.I dont trust him, he's too smarmy, he appears to be anti- disabled folk too. So God help us if theres any of us with disablements/medical problems if he gets his feet under the table😐

Once the media have achieved a Labour Party leadership contest they will then call for a general election on the grounds of Burnhams leadership being undemocratic.

I would like to see Conservative and Reform merge with Kemi as PM….🤗

I think Andy Burnam is an ambitious disloyal chancer. He's a much better communicater than Starmer but that's no reason to cause this chaos. He'll have to face the same problems and make the same compromises and trade offs.
The Labour government has done much that is positive. Mistakes made of course but no reason to change pm mid term.

Different fight up here, all about oil and gas and a bit of tactical voting to keep SNP out.

Galaxy

Thas the end for Starmer.

Not necessarily. He has to win the confidence of 81 Labour members in a leadership ballot and, while a few MPs have already spoken up, there are over 400 others whose views are unknown.

I think he may be able to unite the Labour Party. We can't have the likes of Reform and Restore running the country.

Fabulous that the Labour Party can produce three excellent candidates in Starmer, Streeting and Burnham. As a party member I look forward to reading their election statements and voting.

I’m glad that he did, but think the age of the triple lock is long gone really

We can only pray if Burnham becomes PM, he will get rid of Rachel Reeves and David Lammy. Lisa Nandy deserves a place in his Cabinet.

reformparty.uk/news/how-andy-burnham-betrayed-the-victims-of-grooming-gangs