Rape Gang Report

Magenta8

OK thanks for correcting me.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound bossy or patronising.

I posted the link to the NCA, so that people can read for themselves (not via a third party such as Sky) what the position actually is.

The operation is actually a stage further than a report, so there will hopefully be an increase in prosecutions. By the way, a number of grooming gangs are white British and some even include women.

Thank you CatsWhiskas I had read snippets online but the report is useful.

Exactly CatsWhiskas, in fact, taking it to it's logical conclusion, it could be argued that bringing race into the toxic mix it could be argued that in itself is perverting the course of justice.

A close female relative of mine was raped by two men, one with a knife, when she was a student. It took 10 years for her to cope with the getting through the month in which it occurred without reliving the horror. It had a profound effect on her and all who knew her, both family and friends. The perpetrators were never caught.

Let us be realistic the vast majority of these men are of Asian descent.

Our daughter saw this happening in a Lancashire market town 21 years ago.

Police investigated only after she emailed her MP and the Chief Inspector.
They set up surveillance in her flat and despite our daughter and flatmates knowing what they had caught on film they decided they didn’t have enough evidence.

She sent the paper trail to a journalist and featured on a radio programme about the gangs.

It was all brushed under the carpet in the name of social cohesion.

Sago

Let us be realistic the vast majority of these men are of Asian descent.

Our daughter saw this happening in a Lancashire market town 21 years ago.

Police investigated only after she emailed her MP and the Chief Inspector.
They set up surveillance in her flat and despite our daughter and flatmates knowing what they had caught on film they decided they didn’t have enough evidence.

She sent the paper trail to a journalist and featured on a radio programme about the gangs.

It was all brushed under the carpet in the name of social cohesion.

No, that is not being realistic or necessarily truthful. It is precisely that kind of claim which means that the current operation is so urgent. Let's base any opinions on facts, not hearsay, anecdote and gossip!

Nannee49

Exactly CatsWhiskas, in fact, taking it to it's logical conclusion, it could be argued that bringing race into the toxic mix it could be argued that in itself is perverting the course of justice.

I agree.

I know someone who used to live in one of those areas. At 14 her mother accompanied her to and from school.
The men shouted "white trash!" at the girls as they went to school.

The law has to be equal. Anybody no matter who should be arrested and punished for rape especially of a child.

I am basing this on fact catswhiskers.

British-Pakistani researchers have found that 84% of all people convicted since 2005 for the specific crime of gang grooming were Asian.

The Quilliam Foundation found that the demographic background of those who exploit youngsters in a paedophile ring was different to those who act in grooming gangs.

According to the most recent figures, released in 2012 by the National Crime Agency's Child Exploitation and Online Protection Command (CEOP), 100% of child sex offenders in paedophile rings were white.

Sago

I am basing this on fact catswhiskers.

British-Pakistani researchers have found that 84% of all people convicted since 2005 for the specific crime of gang grooming were Asian.

The Quilliam Foundation found that the demographic background of those who exploit youngsters in a paedophile ring was different to those who act in grooming gangs.

According to the most recent figures, released in 2012 by the National Crime Agency's Child Exploitation and Online Protection Command (CEOP), 100% of child sex offenders in paedophile rings were white.

According to the most recent figures, released in 2012 by the National Crime Agency's Child Exploitation and Online Protection Command (CEOP), 100% of child sex offenders in paedophile rings were white +11 In 2012, the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Command (CEOP) reported that the very small sample of "Type 2" offender groups studied—those described as traditional paedophile rings—were recorded as exclusively white. However, CEOP emphasized that this sample size was too small and the data was too limited to draw national conclusions

That information has not come from Operation Beaconport, Sago, because the latest update is that so far eight forces who had closed cases without recognition of grooming gangs have been instructed to reopen them. The truth has not been out there, that’s the whole purpose of doing such a thorough investigation now?

I looked up the Quilliam Foundation. It was founded in 2008 and closed down in 2021. I would be wary of its figures

bylinetimes.com/2021/05/11/the-charmed-life-and-strange-sad-death-of-the-quilliam-foundation/

I couldn’t care less if the perpetrators were/are blue with pink spots.

I do care that the girls need to be listened to, that the police investigate the people/agencies the girls site as abusers and/or enablers.

This must be done without fear or favour, regardless of ethnicity or position in society.

Who cares what ethnicity these perpetrators are ? They need to be put in jail with no fear or favour. What is wrong with the police and the law enforcers? It is just sick, no excuses should be made.

I'm afraid you're not basing your claim on reputable facts Sago.

As Casdon has already pointed out, the current operation has been tasked to find out accurate data. Until that has been done, your claim is speculation.

Even if it is true, people need to be very cautious. There is absolutely no doubt at all that white British men (and women) have been prosecuted for some horrendous child sexual abuse, including grooming gangs. If people get the idea that is only, or even mainly, something perpetuated by Asian men, there will be many white abusers who slip thorough the net.

The police and other services must treat everybody equally. Race and ethnicity should be irrelevant.

nanna8

Who cares what ethnicity these perpetrators are ? They need to be put in jail with no fear or favour. What is wrong with the police and the law enforcers? It is just sick, no excuses should be made.

I agree totally. It's not just a problem with the police and law enforcers. It's a problem with the public and gossip mongers.

GrannyGravy13

I couldn’t care less if the perpetrators were/are blue with pink spots.

I do care that the girls need to be listened to, that the police investigate the people/agencies the girls site as abusers and/or enablers.

This must be done without fear or favour, regardless of ethnicity or position in society.

I totally agree, I do think it would be very easy to identify the blue with pink spots, so I’m hoping it goes that well!

As GG13 said, and I re-phrase, doesn't matter who they are.

GrannyGravy13

I couldn’t care less if the perpetrators were/are blue with pink spots.

I do care that the girls need to be listened to, that the police investigate the people/agencies the girls site as abusers and/or enablers.

This must be done without fear or favour, regardless of ethnicity or position in society.

I agree 100%

I would add that it is true that reporting of the cases was treated carefully because of a wish to avoid racial tension, but the difficulty in proving guilt was separate from that.

The victims (and IMO the girls were absolutely victims) did ‘consent’ to what happened, and there were complicated circumstances surrounding the way it all happened, so it wasn’t clear cut, legally.

We need better legislation to protect vulnerable people, but there are, of course, difficulties with determining who they are and how far their apparent freedoms can be curtailed in their best interests.

The girls were abused because they were poor, not properly protected, and looking for ‘love’ without a clear understanding of what that means. The men abused them because they could, because all of the above made the girls vulnerable, and possibly because cultural factors made the women in their demographic circles ‘off limits.

I am offering no excuses there, but suggesting that laws and policies need to recognise all of the factors and put the girls’ needs first. Teenagers in general, and cared-for teens in particular are complex and often difficult to manage, but we (as a society) have to find a way to do it. It is shameful that we can’t.

It does matter what the ethnicity of these men is.
We need to understand what is driving these men and why are they exploiting predominantly white girls.

To understand the dynamic will help authorities tackle and prevent these crimes.

All this treading on eggshells - we already know from Baroness Casey’s Report that Police and local authorities INTENTIONALLY avoided investigating grooming gangs to prevent accusations of racism.

Institutional “denial” and obfuscation allowed authorities to ignore evidence, downplay the scale of abuse and cover up the disproportionate number of Asian offenders.

I think that’s clear enough for anybody to understand.

Now we have another review largely thanks to Maggie Oliver who has been working for these poor girls for decades and who has always known the real reasons why these horrific attacks were allowed to continue for so long.

The current inquiries will go back to 2010. The Conservatives were in power for nearly all of the time, until Labour ordered this operation.

You're right, Primrose, there have been umpteen reports, but very little has been done. Thankfully, butts have now been kicked. National guidelines will be applied, so it should be more difficult for abusers to escape the net and cold cases will be re-examined.

The "real reasons" will now become more than gossip and hearsay. Hopefully anybody can understand that.

Sago

It does matter what the ethnicity of these men is.
We need to understand what is driving these men and why are they exploiting predominantly white girls.

To understand the dynamic will help authorities tackle and prevent these crimes.

No, it does not matter what the ethnicity is. If crimes have been committed, the law must be blind in its enforcement.

I’d be surprised if there is a ‘real reason’. That is a huge simplification. There are many factors at play, some of which I suggested in my last post, and it is the problems with reconciling them all that make the cases difficult.

Somehow we need to foreground the victims, but when they are over the age of consent and the care system has more or less abandoned them, how do ‘we’ do that?

Yes, the abusers should be jailed, but on what charges?

How do we balance a society that on the one hand sets the age of consent at 16, and provides limited ‘care’ to children above that age the one who expects men to respect their vulnerabilities outside of legalities?

I repeat that I am not excusing anything. The cases are awful. But how many young women have consensual sex with all and sundry because it is ‘their right to do so’, and they have never learnt self-respect? How many men do the same? When does consent cross with informed consent, and how do we legislate around that crossing?

The majority of the testimonies I've read is that these weren't young women though Doodledog they were children who never got the opportunity to develop any kind of understanding of consent or self worth plied as they were with drugs, alcohol, gifts from men who they heartbreakingly believed cared for them.

It seems there is enough evidence to treat each and every case individually to determine what charges should be brought with further investigation into the shocking cover ups by people in power who's function was to safeguard these children not perpetuate the horror.

God knows how Maggie Oliver kept her sanity in the face of it all, no words can really express my admiration for her courage.