Preston Davey, another baby P.

The adoption placement may have taken weeks, but the couple would have been assessed for at least six months prior to the placement and then approved, via panel, by the fostering agency (which appears to have been a LA consortium).

Preston was placed with this couple for adoption but the adoption had not been finalised, as is the norm.

I’m horrified by what happened but I don’t think we can say, from the known facts, that the adoption was carried out flippantly. It seems to have followed the usual process. Clearly, the process wasn’t good enough but the reasons for that can only be determined by someone with a complete overview ie the Serious Case Review which I believe are now termed Local Child Safeguarding Practice Reviews

Is the selection process less thorough nowadays?

Sago

Had the adoption panel turned down the two killers they would no doubt be branded as homophobic.

Absolutely.

I’ve turned down gay couples who applied to foster before they even got to panel, so I don’t think that’s the case Sago. You just have to be clear about the grounds for doing so, which would have nothing to do with their sexuality.

Well quite right not to (at the beginning) as the 2 prospective dads hadn’t done anything wrong at that point had they? To deny them the opportunity to give a child what could have been a stable and loving home would indeed have been homophobic.

However as events unfolded, more robust decisions ought to have been taken.

An inquiry would reveal whether craven decisions were made, or not.

In hindsight, it’s not looking good for the professionals involved whose main duty of care was to that baby, no one else. His well being and safety should have been front and centre at all times.

On paper, this couple would seem ideal.

I have not read or listened to the report, just know a beautiful innocent child died at the hands of these men. I support the death penalty in these cases.no lessons are learnt, a needle in the arm is too good for them but the evil pair should never see the light of day or any freedom again. They cannot be rehabilitated, cannot be forgiven. All their assets should be taken, every last penny to keep them in prison. I would forgive my children almost everything but never that.

MT62

Mind you other prisoners will dole out their own punishment more than likely. Yes maybe hanging is too good for them.

I really hope so. MT62

CatsWhiskas

MissAdventure

Very true!
I've always known it to be a given that males commit more sexual offences than women.
That was the A.I answer I put above, so...

I don't have any problem with accepting that, although I have no idea what percentage of men are involved in any kind of sexual abuse. I doubt very much if it's the majority, which means that most men are not involved with sexual abuse and should not all be labelled as abusers and perverts or discriminated against for being male.

I’ve seen no one suggesting all men should be labelled as abusers and perverts. Many posters have worked with children and families and know the theory and practice. The reality is the horrific death this baby suffered has drawn attention to the fact men pose more risk sexually than women do.

Tuliptree

For the avoidance of doubt, it’s me who’s reported the posts saying same sex couples shouldn’t be allowed to adopt. There is no evidence that they are more likely to harm their adopted children any more than heterosexual adoptive parents. There is no evidence that they are vetted less thoroughly than heterosexual couples or given other preferential treatment. It’s actually potentially harmful to children if we demonise one type of person as more dangerous without evidence as we then may be less rigorous with other groups. There is much to be discussed about this case and the guilty men involved but bad mouthing all gay adopters is just unacceptable, ill-informed prejudice - and no, this is not just a question of opinion and having the right to behave in a discriminatory way.

I totally agree with you and in the cases such as Baby P and Victoria Climbia , excuse the spelling , the perpetrators were different sexes .

We await the review findings. I’ll also be listening to the Judge’s comments about the men’s ability to cover up what was happening.
Nightowl speaks from experience. I’m aware of many prospective adopters/foster cares who were not approved or withdrew because the assessment process is rigorou

So far as I’m aware, there are no targets to approve more gay or lesbian carers.

Having adopted 6 I have been thinking back to our assessments and it was sometime ago I feel it could be easy to deceive social workers (not that we ever did) If things were hidden how would anyone know?
My heart is broken for that beautiful boy he deserved a loving forever family. I feel also for his birth parents who must also be devastated!
I just hope this does not label all same sex couples and prevent them from adopting. However I hope those two men get what they deserve in prison!

Farrooold, thanks for saying it could be ‘easy’ to deceive sw. I’d expand on that because it suggests sw could be easily be deceived. I’d say most of us could be easily deceived. We have a number of posters who worked in police, health, social work, education. Our work will have heightened our antenna to manipulators but ace manipulators are good at what they do.

Having said all this, I’ve the image of Jamie Varley ‘s performance arriving at A and E and wondering how much drama he displayed in the assessment process or in his work setting

Thank you Iam, for pointing out how ace manipulators work. I know our backgrounds are similar and, like others you mention, we have experience of these types of people but still often struggle to see through the web of deceit they can project. Social workers are only human I’m afraid, and we don’t have crystal balls.

There are no easy answers but I think the best safeguards lie in robust procedures, experienced managers with the time to have proper oversight, quality supervision, peer support and manageable caseloads, none of which come cheap. And it always comes back to a willingness to ‘think the unthinkable’ even when a couple have passed all the steps of assessment and present as ideal adoptive parents. I think when a child is placed is where the true assessment begins.

Good post night owl. I agree with you about the true assessment starting placement. I’ve great memories of the majority of children, who’d done brilliantly in foster care blooming with prospective adopters. One where i came away worried - I’d known the child three years, my concerns were justified tho nothing like little oration thank goodness

Sorry predictive text changed Preston’s name

'Time to have proper oversight'
Social Work is short staffed, I think. And that leads to burn out, then more shortages.