Trump and the death penalty

MissAdventure

I support the death penalty.

All very well supporting the death penalty but what about the effect it has on those conducting the execution? Edward Heath ex PM was, as an Army officer, in charge of the execution by firing squad of a prisoner and it had a profound effect on him. He was totally opposed to the death penalty. Also what about errors?

Actually, Trump's least favourite critic, namely Pope Leo, has already made it abundantly clear that in his opinion no civilized state should still have or use the death penalty.

Sadly states that do still have it, see the matter differently.

Didn't they use to say to the execution squad, that one of the bullets was a blank, to make it easier for them to take part.

Do you think Fred and Rose West were found guilty in error, Plunger?

Sorry MissAdventure I don't really understand what point you are making by mentioning the Wests. They were a very clear cut case of guilty as charged for multiple murders.

I think the point Plunger was making is that if the death penalty is enforced there is a chance that innocent people are slaughtered for a murder they did not commit. It is well documented that this has happened in the past.

I am not only opposed to the death penalty I am also a pacifist.

I am totally against the death penalty, IMO it is not the way a civilised society should deal with it's worst criminals. However, a very good reason for not having a death penalty is the willingness of a jury to find someone guilty of murder. I would not be prepared to find someone guilty if I thought they would be executed and I doubt that I am the only one.

Of course, any case where there is the slightest doubt wouldn't incur the death penalty.

I am against the death penalty. No state or government should take a life. What kind of example does that set? I believe everyone should have the chance of rehabilitation. Too often criminals are the product of a totally dis-functional upbringing. I am not saying the worst criminals should necessarily be set free, but they shouldnt be murdered by the State.

I believe in Blackstone's Ratio (bold is mine)

"Fourthly, all presumptive evidence of felony should be admitted cautiously, for the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer. And Sir Matthew Hale in particular lays down two rules most prudent and necessary to be observed: 1. Never to convict a man for stealing the goods of a person unknown, merely because he will give no account how he came by them, unless an actual felony be proved of such goods; and, 2. Never to convict any person of murder or manslaughter till at least the body be found dead; on account of two instances he mentions where persons were executed for the murder of others who were then alive but missing.[3]"

There is an organization in the US who works for those who are wrongly convicted.

innocenceproject.org/all-cases/

I support the death penalty for Trump. Hitler, Mao, Stalin. And any other mastermind who thinks overthrowing the world order is the thing to do.

Secretly, I think the person who needs to be tried and executed if convicted is Steven Miller. He is the mastermind here, Trump is just his useful idiot. And I am worried of making Trump a martyr.

The death penalty still exist in about half the American states. Is this latest perhaps about convicted military personnel? Bad enough with already existing states but if this is a blanket proposal for the whole of USA just awful.

It is for Federal and Military cases. Each state also has the right to set its own policy.

I think that Trump has shattered the illusion once and for all that the USA is a civilised first world democracy.

It beggars belief that so many people voted in a senile, degenerate, narcissist to hold such a powerful position for a second term.

This latest outrage against humanity is just more proof that Trump is a deranged monster.

There are so many intelligent, talented and humane people in the USA and it is a travesty that they have to endure being represented by the orange baby and his thicko followers.

It is worth mentioning the name Mark Burnett, from the UK, in connection with the popularising of Trump.

My optimism on seeing the headline has diminished, now I see that the Orange Baboon isn't the target.

As he started his own Gestapo death squads, able to murder innocent citizens with apparently no legal action, this shouldn't be a surprise move.

This is the same barmpot who was asked about tougher gun control laws after the 2017 mass murder in Las Vegas (about 60 dead, hundreds injured) and said "We'll look at it". And then made it even easier to acquire guns.

One of the many sentences he's pardoned was a 45 year term for a renowned drugs baron, plus of course all (or most of) those guilty of the attempted Capitol revolution (clearly treason). We may find out in future years how much the Chump coffers have increased?

Magenta8, have never heard of Mark Burnett, so thanks for the heads up.
Agree with imaround about the deadly Stephen Millar, and not forgetting his charmless spouse.

MissAdventure

Of course, any case where there is the slightest doubt wouldn't incur the death penalty.

But sometimes there are wrong convictions. I am currently watching a documentary on the killing of Rachel Nickell. Colin Stagg was wrongfully arrested, and served 13 months in prison for Rachel's murder. He was acquitted in 1994, due to police misconduct during the investigation, and officially cleared in 2008 when DNA evidence linked serial killer Robert Napper to Rachel's murder.

Had the death penalty been a possibility at the time, then Colin Stagg may well have been executed for Rachel's murder.

MayBee70

This from a president who has pardoned the people jailed for their part in the insurrection in which people died ( and also, I believe, is planning to pay them compensation?).

Compensation fund has been challenged and then cancelled.

globalnews.ca/news/11887474/trump-anti-weaponization-fund-cancelled-todd-blanche/?hl=en-GB

NotSpaghetti

MayBee70

This from a president who has pardoned the people jailed for their part in the insurrection in which people died ( and also, I believe, is planning to pay them compensation?).

Compensation fund has been challenged and then cancelled.

globalnews.ca/news/11887474/trump-anti-weaponization-fund-cancelled-todd-blanche/?hl=en-GB

Thanks for that info.

Colin Stagg wouldn't ever have been a candidate for the death penalty, to my mind, because there never was any hard evidence.

As far as I know, all of the mistaken convictions were some years ago.

Dna has come a long way since then.

Dennis Neilson; No mistake there, unless someone else put human flesh down his toilet, and other gruesome evidence into his flat.

Maremia

Magenta8, have never heard of Mark Burnett, so thanks for the heads up.
Agree with imaround about the deadly Stephen Millar, and not forgetting his charmless spouse.

For information on the role Mark Burnett played in the rise and rise of Trump, there is a chapter in a book published in 2022 by Patrick Radden Keefe - 'Rogues, True stories of Grifters, Killers, Rebels and Crooks.'

Mark Burnett is now Trump's UK envoy.

Wiki doesn't really contain all the information on this.

jakuss

Good, time we brought it back

Would you still feel that way were you erroneously charged with murder?

Maremia, the connection between television producer Mark Burnett and Donald Trump is regarded by many to be one of the most consequential partnerships in American political history.
He created the myth of Trump as the expert businessman via The Apprentice TV show.

He repackaged and rehabilitated him in the eyes of the public after his various bankrupt businesses, casino failures and mega-debt.

Millions of viewers saw a decisive, commanding leader who listened to arguments This weekly fantasy embedded the idea into the American psyche that Trump was a brilliant manager of people and "the numbers".

The story is that working-class households (in particulat) across suburban and rural America loved his TV persona. It made Trump a household name to people that were unfamiliar with the world of real estate (and his history). For many voters, Trump's competence was built entirely on the fictionalized boardroom persona Burnett made for him.

Thanks NotSpaghetti, for that further info.

Not only The Apprentice but the ghost writer of Trump's 'Art of the Deal' did admit in 2016 that his work 'put lipstick on a pig'

I suppose Trump believes his own hype!

I think Tony Swartz, the ghost writer behind 'The Art of the Deal', shares some of the blame for Trump's success although he has since denounced Trump. The ride still continues for Mark Burnett.