Makerfield: Reform candidate sexist?

Every time this thread pops up all I can think now is sexist or not, he's going to win. Isn't he? Disagreements with optimistic reasons will be welcome.

MaizieD

... yes, it's an internet meme... which I posted once before on GN - to save someone's embarrassed blushes.

The point of posting it again was to defend someone who had been unnecessarily 'scolded' IMO, which I thought would be obvious by the tone of my post.

I bet you can read the paragraph though!

Interesting MaizieD and yes the 3 sentences lower down the page did get harder and I couldn't manage them at normal speed, a couple of words took a few seconds to decipher. Thanks for the link. It's still fun to do with the easier passages.

Dickens

MissAdventure

Yes, Johnson is what i mean.

The human brain is a very clever thing - it can make sense of mis-spelling - even a whole paragraph of jumbled words. The phenomenon is known as "Typoglycemia" and is perfectly illustrated here...

t Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe."

I think we all knew who you were referring to, it matters not.

I'm sorry, but this is a meme which has no basis in scientific research.

It was circulated in 2003. A rebuttal by a Cambridge scientist from the Cognition and Brain Sciences Unit was published later.

This text circulated on the internet in September 2003. I first became aware of it when a journalist contacted a my colleague Sian Miller on 16th September, trying to track down the original source. It's been passed on many times, and in the way of most internet memes has mutated along the way. It struck me as interesting - especially when I received a version that mentioned Cambridge University! I work at Cognition and Brain Sciences Unit, in Cambridge, UK, a Medical Research Council unit that includes a large group investigating how the brain processes language. If there's a new piece of research on reading that's been conducted in Cambridge, I thought I should have heard of it before...

The whole article needs to be read to understand what makes it seem convincing and what actual research says.

www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/people/matt-davis/cmabridge/

I am intrigued to find that someone has been sufficiently convinced by the original meme to have come up with a scientific sounding name for it. Can you cite its source, Dickens or shall I go back to AI?

I love that phenomenon and no matter how many times I see examples it still tickles me that I can indeed read it at normal speed with absolutely no problem at all 😄

MissAdventure

Yes, Johnson is what i mean.

The human brain is a very clever thing - it can make sense of mis-spelling - even a whole paragraph of jumbled words. The phenomenon is known as "Typoglycemia" and is perfectly illustrated here...

t Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe."

I think we all knew who you were referring to, it matters not.

What a nasty unkind negative and unnecessary post to Miss Adventure, butterandjam,

If you lived there and you read Carol Vorderman’s powerful letter to female constituents, you would be a lot less likely to vote for Reform than you might have been too.

Perhaps the Greens will surge to an unexpected victory.

Oreo

No matter what anyone on this thread thinks, it’s up to the people of Makerfield constituency to choose their MP and the party he/she represents.

They already did, and their democratically elected MP Josh Simons dumped them.

If I was a voter in Makerfield I'd be furious at his dismissal of his constituency for an opportunist like Burnham.

butterandjam

MissAdventure

Yes, Johnson is what i mean.
Unfortunately I've a lot of nerve damage in my dominant hand, so i assume people will have to make allowances for my awful spelling and writing ability.
Most do.

Why do you assume posters here know about your medical condition ?

A number of posters do know because she's been on Gnet for a few years and probably also has contacts with other posters through PMs.

But that is actually irrelevant.

It's generally understood on the forums that it is not acceptable to question posters' spelling or grammar because they may have difficulties which we don't know about.

It may be OK to politely query an ambiguous spelling but anything other than that is not good.

I honestly couldn't care a flying fart whether they know or not, if I may be perfectly frank.

MissAdventure

Yes, Johnson is what i mean.
Unfortunately I've a lot of nerve damage in my dominant hand, so i assume people will have to make allowances for my awful spelling and writing ability.
Most do.

Why do you assume posters here know about your medical condition ?

MissAdventure

How about those people who are pro choice, but then state "But not if its used as a form of contraception"?

I've never found that a convincing argument, and I'm of the opinion (which I acknowledge is subjective) that 'pro-choice' means just that - it might involve a choice that doesn't necessarily sit easy.

What data exists suggests that women who have had more than one abortion are in the older age group and, often, already parents; such 'repeats' can be for medical reasons, contraceptive-failure, as well as for economic reasons.

How many women, realistically, recklessly choose surgical intervention over a daily contraceptive pill, I wonder?

Of course the suggestion by a certain (male) individual that women choose it so that they "can shag a lot" (or whatever phraseology he chose) says more about him I believe than it does about the women having a repeat abortion. But it gains traction.

I'd also like to say that I, for one, didn't take the stance of supporting a woman's right to choose casually, disregarding the ethics involved... I too, feel emotional about abortion - such emotions/feelings are not necessarily the sole preserve of the anti-abortionists.

Of course it’s not right for any health care professional to advocate for abortion. And of course women should never feel pressured to have an abortion - that in itself is a perversion of the fundamental principle of a woman’s right to choose. What is awful is the reality of bringing up a disabled child ( whatever the level of disability) in a society which does not choose to provide appropriate support for both parents and children. There will be a large overlap in a Venn diagram between the very politicians who are anti- abortion and those who rail against disability benefits and the proper funding of social care.

How about those people who are pro choice, but then state "But not if its used as a form of contraception"?

I decided not to have the amniocentesis test when I was pregnant at 35 and 37. I was very happily married, the babies ,much wanted and I knew I’d refuse termination if the test was positive
I’m pro choice. There were other times in my life when termination would have been my choice.

Rosie51, I had an amniocentesis before both my babies were born. My husband and I were given counselling about how to make a decision if the test had proved positive for Downs or a number of other conditions. At no stage was any pressure put on us, although we were fairly sure what our decision would have been. It all turned out well and we didn't have to make a decision in the end. I can't say whether there would have been a different pressure, if the test had shown genetic abnormalities.

As genetic testing gets more advanced do we consider it the right thing to advocate for the abortion of babies that we can tell will likely develop diabetes, cancer, multiple sclerosis, cystic fibrosis, heart disease etc because their maintenance and treatment will incur a cost on society? All slippery slopes start somewhere.

Oh I absolutely believe in a woman's right to choose, but when babies that are less than perfect are considered not worth the pregnancy and there can be conscious or even unconscious pressure to terminate then I am concerned. I was personally told it was my 'duty' to terminate a baby who would be a drain on public finances. My reply? If one of my other children was to be incapacitated through accident or illness to the extent of a baby born with spina bifida should that child be 'terminated' was greeted with "don't be stupid, that's different!' I fail to see that difference.
Abortion isn't for me but I'd never deny another woman her right to one, but equally I don't want any woman to be pressured to have an abortion against her innermost feelings because 'society says it's the right thing to do' If society can't support those born with lifelong conditions then society isn't worth the candle!

^ From AI in answer to "Is there pressure in Iceland to terminate a pregnancy featuring Down syndrome?"^

The same use of AI reports that
Parents of children with Down's syndrome in Iceland receive comprehensive, cradle-to-grave state and municipal support, including medical care, financial allowances, and developmental assistance

But you have to wonder if that’s possible as Rosie51 mentioned earlier,
Because prenatal screening leads to a very low live birth rate of 0-2 babies per year, the few families who welcome a child with Down's syndrome receive highly individualised attention.

It’s a difficult choice. I’m glad I never had to make it, but I believe the woman should have the right to choose.

I could have given many more examples of cognitive dissonance (as I see it) but didn’t want the post to be too long.

As far as abortion goes, it has to be the woman’s right to choose in the end. To me, there is no middle ground, even though I struggle to imagine a situation under which I would have had one.

I fully understand that others disagree profoundly, and I understand why they disagree, but nobody should be able to force someone else to have a child they don’t want (or do want, but can’t support). I like to think that if a baby is prevented from being born they will get another chance when the time is right. If that is not the case, then maybe the life was never meant to be?

Galaxy

I used many examples Maizie, the abortion debate was one of them as I had just watched it unfold.
I would agree with the risks of American /British comparisons - I have never been that keen for example on analysing Reform through the lens of Trump.
Farage is in my view much more like a cheap version of Johnson than a version of Trump.

I believe there is something much more pernicious about Farage than there is/was about Johnson.

Yes Rosie, that is so.

From AI in answer to "Is there pressure in Iceland to terminate a pregnancy featuring Down syndrome?"

No, there is no official or legal pressure from the Icelandic government to abort fetuses diagnosed with Down syndrome. However, complex societal, structural, and cultural dynamics lead to an exceptionally high termination rate. Nearly 100% of women who receive a positive prenatal diagnosis for Down syndrome in Iceland choose to terminate their pregnancy. This statistical reality has sparked intense international debate regarding whether subtle, systemic pressures exist.

I find this situation extremely worrying and fear any such situation happening in the UK. For those parents who do have children with Down syndrome, their scarcity in countries like Iceland make it difficult to access supportive networks. I know two lovely people with Down syndrome, one a 28 year old man and the other a woman in her 50s. Both live relatively independent lives with minimal support other than from family. Both have worthwhile happy, productive lives. I think our world would be a poorer place without them.

Maremia

Oh Rosie, that was my friend's experience.
It's just not really a subject for 'intellectual' debate.
Women should not be forced, in either direction.

I used many examples Maizie,

I’m sorry, Galaxy, but that’s just what you don’t do. The abortion debate example is something of a rarity in this respect.

If you are going to characterise ‘progressives/the left as being authoritarian and bigoted, lacking in understanding of the working classes etc. then it would be helpful to know what drives that judgement. Particularly as I don’t recognise my ‘left wing”, but undeniably middle class, friends from that description. (Or myself, though that might just be wishful thinking on my part)