What needs to happen to stop violent protest on the streets of Southampton against the police and to stop agitators wrongly targeting police officers on line with death threats?

I've been involved in delivering anti-racism training. The vast majority of people have no problem with it because it's how they try to run their lives anyway. Sometimes people can be unconsciously racist and they appreciate being able to discuss how to respond.

The people who do have a problem with it and tend to grumble about it and mutter about "wokism" are those with engrained racist beliefs who refuse to indulge in self-reflection. It's quite difficult to get through to them because they won't change their beliefs. It is because there are people like them that anti-racist laws are needed. Most organisations do not want to be racist and if their employees won't voluntarily follow certain values, rules need to be applied. It is especially important in an organisation such as the police.

youtu.be/EOZFZDLRczw?si=tlOouODUrSgi0bPq

This wasn't the one i watched, specifically, but touches on the same issues.c

As I have said we have been through this before with some of the Stonewall influenced training, it was frequently inaccurate in terms of the law, etc. There is a fair bit of money in this type of training, I think it is worth some unpicking of what organisations need and who us providing it.

This, in my opinion, sums it all up.

spectator.com/article/why-can-we-rage-against-george-floyds-death-but-not-henry-nowaks/

Primrose53

This, in my opinion, sums it all up.

spectator.com/article/why-can-we-rage-against-george-floyds-death-but-not-henry-nowaks/

I totally agree - thank you for the link Primrose53

One man in court today for throwing bins and threatening the police, 25 previous offences. Asked for bail as he was worried about his dog - he was remanded in custody.

MissAdventure

youtu.be/EOZFZDLRczw?si=tlOouODUrSgi0bPq

This wasn't the one i watched, specifically, but touches on the same issues.c

This was an excellent interview, and many thanks for it MissA.
Calm, pragmatic … there are indeed lessons from the incident, which is about individual police officers learning g how to best use what they know.

We really need to recall the not so long ago revelations from was it Clapham police station? The one found to be a nasty hot bed of misogyny and racism?
Of course we need to help our police see a whole picture. .. and learn what assumptions not to make, too.

Erm… can we not rage about both?
But how can people discuss it without being informed about issues around what misogyny leads to, and how to understand our different cultures that enrich our country?
Some attitudes towards minority cultures, tbh, are similar to those I grew up from some adults with when we were just appallingly clumsily divesting ourselves of our ‘empire’

Time to enjoy diversity but always always within our laws, and when things go wrong like they just have, learn from them, don’t use it as an excuse to repeat 1950’s memes.

twaddle

Well, I'm sorry to say that the police officers I know (male and female) don't feel the same way you describe, TerriBull. There is one exception and he's on the verge of retirement and racist and sexist - possibly not unusual for a male of his age. He complains constantly about "the youth of today" and makes snide comments about people of colour and Jews. He's on one of the committees I belong to and I see people rolling their eyes when he starts. The other police officers I know are some of the most sensible, fair and caring people I know. They have no problem treating everyone with respect.

That’s only the police that youknow twaddle…it’s worth remembering that.

Jaxjacky

I don’t think there is anything that can be said Lemonjam, actions speak louder.
If anyone had the balls to prosecute the likes of Farage and Robinson, that might; it’s highly unlikely to happen.
The rent a mob who turn up to any chance of a scrap really don’t care about words.

Clearly, Yaxley-Lennon has been prosecuted in the past and as for Farage, he’s simply the grift which keeps on giving.

It’s worth every large institution that deals with the public like the NHS and the Police to have anti racism training, as witness the NHS and antisemitism for a start.What the Police cannot be hamstrung with is giving ethnic minorities special kid gloves treatment. Officers say they are afraid of charges of racism above all else, so whatever the training is like it badly needs changing.

I would say that depends on the quality of anti racism training, as I say we have seen organisations produce terrible training, it is if course a considerable money making field. I can't even begin to imagine what the 'misogyny' training is like.

I worked with many police officers in roles when a CS. They were, without exception, extremely hard working and respectful.

Perhaps if, in your daily work-life, you were called outs, snorted at (pig noises) and generally treated like dirt, you might occasionally get a little hacked off.

I worked, with a couple of colleagues, on an initiative regarding local drug gangs and county lines, back in 2011-2013, in a deprived area of Essex. The police were part of this, along with victim support, probation and youth workers. What a thankless task trying to identify and get off the streets high level dealers.

These police officers literally put their lives on the line every day. This is what they signed up for, but it doesn’t help when group of so called vigilantes give out incorrect intel and then cause riots and send serving and retired officers death threats!

Oreo

It’s worth every large institution that deals with the public like the NHS and the Police to have anti racism training, as witness the NHS and antisemitism for a start.What the Police cannot be hamstrung with is giving ethnic minorities special kid gloves treatment. Officers say they are afraid of charges of racism above all else, so whatever the training is like it badly needs changing.

I agree, racism at any level is wrong, but so is the fear of being accused of racism and then making errors.

Wyllow3

Erm… can we not rage about both?
But how can people discuss it without being informed about issues around what misogyny leads to, and how to understand our different cultures that enrich our country?
Some attitudes towards minority cultures, tbh, are similar to those I grew up from some adults with when we were just appallingly clumsily divesting ourselves of our ‘empire’

Time to enjoy diversity but always always within our laws, and when things go wrong like they just have, learn from them, don’t use it as an excuse to repeat 1950’s memes.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

Good post Wyllow, thanks.

Chocolatelovinggran, yes, I was struck by the completely different tone Farage used when talking about a woman being killed by a white man, in the tragic Sarah Everard case

Precisely - a white policeman. But when the police attempt to put their house in order, things are bound not to go smoothly.

Look, I have personal experience e of this as many know. Up and down the country police are slowly setting up units or at lease training men and women to respond to Sexual Assault and Abuse of all kinds, and the failings around are very very well known - failure and problems of all kinds in prosecuting.

When I was sexually assulted in October the first policeman who came was very well trained and assessed the situation for what it was in detail. But when it came to the local \'bobby" who had to make the arrest, he assessed the man who had assaulted me as a "nice old gent who'd made a terrible mistake\' and regretted it so much (which of course he hadn't at all).

These things cant change overnight - mine was minor but still reverberates as the man concerned took the view of the second policemen so denied it in the group where it had happened: and others actually believed him -

- these things are happening to women all the time - obviously a relatively small incident:

But illustrating there will be errors and far more serious ones made when training is inadequate and not properly understood,

especially when as there is always the risk that the complainant is in fact lying and its a case by case situation.

Maremia

Chocolatelovinggran, yes, I was struck by the completely different tone Farage used when talking about a woman being killed by a white man, in the tragic Sarah Everard case

Have you a link to his comments at the time Sarah Everard’s killer was jailed?

He wasn’t an MP at the time.

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/changed-his-tune-people-reshare-farages-comments-about-sarah-everards-murder-406763/

I applaud James O'Brien for posting out Farage's hypocrisy and questioning Farage's motivation for his "lies, exaggerations and heinous decisions".

GrannyGravy13

Maremia

Chocolatelovinggran, yes, I was struck by the completely different tone Farage used when talking about a woman being killed by a white man, in the tragic Sarah Everard case

Have you a link to his comments at the time Sarah Everard’s killer was jailed?

He wasn’t an MP at the time.

He was an MEP until January 2020 (a year before Sarah Everard's murder) and has been a high profile public figure for years. The fact he wasn't an MP is no excuse.

Why do people even make excuses for the odious little man? Why?

Whatis wrong with farage's conments abour Sarah's murder?
If its whay I've jusy watched, i really can't see the issue.

LizzieDrip

Why do people even make excuses for the odious little man? Why?

I am not and haven’t ever made excuses for Nigel Farage.