What needs to happen to stop violent protest on the streets of Southampton against the police and to stop agitators wrongly targeting police officers on line with death threats?

We have divided people by identity characteristics and the progressives are as guilty of that as farage etc. Badenoch is talking some sense of this issue. Telling people not to talk about this or not to protest isnt going to work.

No point in amswering the question, as itllbe deemed "wrong'.

when people are talking about 1945 in Germany what do you think they are implying

Well, for a start, I don't think that the implication was that all Germans were nazis. The situation in 1945 was far more complex than that. We know that many Germans weren't aware of what their government had been doing and needed to know why the allies had been fighting them. The same way that we British need to know that the British Empire wasn't an entirely benevolent institution and that some dreadful things were done by us to the 'subject' peoples.

Galaxy

We have divided people by identity characteristics and the progressives are as guilty of that as farage etc. Badenoch is talking some sense of this issue. Telling people not to talk about this or not to protest isnt going to work.

Yes, it does need talking about. What it doesn't need is thugs throwing missiles at police and injuring them, stirred up by malevolent forces for their own agenda

It needed talking about 10 years ago. It has been nearly impossible for people to do that.

The blood of young men is up at this time of the year unfortunately, and violence nearly always erupts during spells of hot weather about something, stirred up by malevolents who are doing it for their own ends.

I think many of us are aware of that Galaxy and were saying so on here a long time ago. Repeating it every time there are factions against one another doesn’t move the conversation on, though. It suggests defeatism and an unwillingness to consider what might be a solution.

But people will barely talk about it even now. As far as I can see the only one who is addressing it is badenoch. I am not defeatist, she is giving me some hope.

Galaxy

It's a general point about how reform supporters and actually now sometimes conservatives are described, when people are talking about 1945 in Germany what do you think they are implying.
Numerous crimes are politicised, I am afraid it is impossible to control which ones are politicised and which ones aren't.

I tell you what I was implying (as I was the person who mentioned 1945 Germany).

The Allies (Americans in particular) forced some "ordinary" people to visit the death camps to see for themselves what the government had been doing in the "people"'s name. Some of them were physically sick when they witnessed it for themselves.

These were people who had possibly voted for the Nazis in the early 1930s - maybe because they wanted change. Nobody else was responsible - it was a government voted into power by about a third of the electorate. Curiously, that's about the same percentage of the UK electorate which currently supports Reform and under the FPTP system could result in a Reform government.

If you had asked the Germans in the early 1930s whether they thought their actions would have resulted in the slaughter of millions of people for no other reason than that they were Jewish, they would have laughed at you and dismissed the threat out of hand. Democracy resulted in the holocaust!

In 1945, there were still Germans (and Poles) in denial. They knew something was going on, but they didn't ask too many questions and they were too frightened to do anything anyway.

What the Germans in 1945 had to face up to was that it was their actions which resulted in the holocaust, even if they couldn't have foreseen it. The world should have learnt lessons, that discrimination and hatred result in catastrophe. Apparently it hasn't learnt!!

Galaxy

It needed talking about 10 years ago. It has been nearly impossible for people to do that.

I don't accept that. I have been politically involved all that time and it has most certainly been discussed.

I know what you mean twaddle, i don't agree with you, that's all.

This not new though, is it? Riots have been happening in the summer months in the UK for decades, youth versus police, in one form or another. It’s not just in the last decade that there has been a high level of dissatisfaction.

So, we just give up, simply because it wasn't dealt with 10 years ago?
We are here now, and we find ways of dealing with it now.

It's important to discuss each issue as it comes up, each one will have its own characteristics.

Otherwise it is defeatism.

Stirring up physical and emotional hatred against the police on this occasion is actually criminal but so disingenuous by the leader mentioned above.

They are attacking the very people we need to keep order and protect the vulnerable.

This was yet another young man who had lots of weapons at home and an obsession with them.
This is most definitely not confined to racal minorities - knife crime is a major issue across the board.

There is trend, reported on Facebook, not sure where it started #ArrestFarage.

Galaxy

But people will barely talk about it even now. As far as I can see the only one who is addressing it is badenoch. I am not defeatist, she is giving me some hope.

I agree.

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what it is that people won't talk about?

MaizieD

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what it is that people won't talk about?

The claim makes it look as "they" are victims, stopped from talking about something (what?) which is important. Only St Elon lets them rant away to their hearts' content.

11 yes 11 policemen were injured,

The Mayor of Southampton suffers increased abuse.

news.sky.com/video/sikh-mp-in-southampton-calls-for-calm-and-unity-and-says-shes-had-an-excessive-amount-of-abuse-after-henry-nowak-protests-13550470

Farage is a cheap, common, rabble rouser dressed in a suit, called for "cold, pure, rage"

Then claims it had nothing to do with an apparently "spontaneous" attack on the police?

In a more amusing moment, he claimed that police rules which favour minorities were out there, tho no one has actually found any

"Nigel Farage made the claim that instructions given to police officers are clear and written down in ink (as opposed to what 🤣)

Allsorts

Do not agree with violence, never thought I would ever say this but agree with Farage. Things are out of hand now. How could anyone leave that boy dying treating him like a criminal. Violence is not what his family wanted and those protests should not have happened but things must change.

The violence does need to stop. Violent protest does not serve Henry or his family. They expressly asked that politicians do not use their son's tragic murder to cause division. Farage needs to condemn the violence not make things worse or they will get even more out of hand.

What could Farage say or do differently to stop the violent disorder in Southampton, that lead to 11 officers being injured and damage to peoples homes and cars? That is not the answer to anything and Henry's family doesn't want the violence either.

Casdon

This not new though, is it? Riots have been happening in the summer months in the UK for decades, youth versus police, in one form or another. It’s not just in the last decade that there has been a high level of dissatisfaction.

Everyone has the right to protest but when it tips over into a violent breach of the peace it is unlawful.

Some notable riots- Brixton riots April 1981, Brixton Riots September 1985, Tottenham riots 1985, The Poll tax riots 1990, The England riots 2011, riots across the UK summer 2024 after the Southport stabbings.

According to Roderick McMillan- bylinetimes.com there are six triggers that spark civil unrest and rioting:

1) Identity politics and ethnic tensions exploited by political polarisation. which is exacerbated by floods of online misinformation. Xenophobia and scapegoating and demonising, particularly fuelled by populists exploiting perceived and manufactured grievances to mobilise support.

2) Economic Inequality - a significant driver of civil unrest and is often the factor underlying all the other triggers- as the gap between the rich and poor widens.

3) *Political Repression and Corruption*- public trust erodes in the face of government and politicians corrupt practices.

4) *Social Justice Movements*- advocating for racial and social justice, often have peaceful aims, yet can still be significant focus points of civil unrest. These movements seek to address systemic discrimination, police brutality and broader social inequalities.

5) *Globalisation and Cultural Changes*- are disrupting traditional societies and economies. Cultural changes are exploited by demagogues , nationalists and politicians who seek to gain money, power and influence by scapegoating.

6) *Climate Change and Environmental Factors*- environmental degradation , resource scarcity and extreme weather exacerbate all the other triggers of unrest.

He states that none of these triggers exist in isolation but interact and act as force multipliers for each other. He states all these factors are ripe for manipulation through identity politics.

I think it is time everyone was treated equally and with respect. That might help. To my mind those police were exactly what they were trying not to be - racist. White lives matter, Black Lives Matter and so do any lives in between. Time the government realised and acknowledged this.

Luckygirl3

Farage and others need to be prosecuted for inciting violence maybe?

He’s far too slippery for anything to stick, he used ‘cold rage’ for a reason, despicable man.

LemonJam

Allsorts

Do not agree with violence, never thought I would ever say this but agree with Farage. Things are out of hand now. How could anyone leave that boy dying treating him like a criminal. Violence is not what his family wanted and those protests should not have happened but things must change.

The violence does need to stop. Violent protest does not serve Henry or his family. They expressly asked that politicians do not use their son's tragic murder to cause division. Farage needs to condemn the violence not make things worse or they will get even more out of hand.

What could Farage say or do differently to stop the violent disorder in Southampton, that lead to 11 officers being injured and damage to peoples homes and cars? That is not the answer to anything and Henry's family doesn't want the violence either.

There were repeated calls for Farage to condemn the violence yesterday in parliament and he refused to do so, he should have done - that’s what he could say or do differently.

By talking about rage, he's giving people justification for violence. He won't condemn it because his aim is to disrupt the state.