Another appalling attack

When the Green party's leader says it's fine for people to carry flags saying 'globalise the intifada' then things are very wrong.
I believe that anyone on a march and shouting that should be arrested. It has come to mean attack on Jews.
The police are being given extra powers and I hope this will be possible.
Banning marches is a contentious issue as it limits freedom we have had here to protest but there should never be any hate placards or chants.
These only lead to the violence we have seen.

Rosie51

Iam64

In my post questioning the negative assumptions associated with union flags and deprived areas, I pointed out one village with flags on every lamp post is one of the wealthiest in my town.

Some folk are so full of negative associations with the union and England flags they make assumptions which like,y have some but not total truth in them.

They’re our flags. We ought not to feel ashamed or threatened by them

100% agree.

twaddle Flags flying to celebrate festivals and supporting the military have been hung with different intent - as I'm sure you know. It is ingenuous to suggest that they represent the same values as the torn and dirty rags which appeared overnight on lamp posts.

So you are saying in your area people went to the trouble of getting ladders etc to hang flags from the lampposts that were dirty and torn? The new Green MP posted a video of her walking along a street where union flags had been mounted on lampposts. She has experience of working at height and commented on the skill to erect so many all at the same height. Of course she didn't like them and wished those skills had been put to 'better use' but she admired the skills necessary. I'm amazed that anyone would bother just to hoist dirty torn flags.

No. (sigh)

* last post was meant to appear under mine about the Green MP.

The flags she was referring to were absolutely pristine, not weathered or torn.

Rosie51

Iam64

In my post questioning the negative assumptions associated with union flags and deprived areas, I pointed out one village with flags on every lamp post is one of the wealthiest in my town.

Some folk are so full of negative associations with the union and England flags they make assumptions which like,y have some but not total truth in them.

They’re our flags. We ought not to feel ashamed or threatened by them

100% agree.

twaddle Flags flying to celebrate festivals and supporting the military have been hung with different intent - as I'm sure you know. It is ingenuous to suggest that they represent the same values as the torn and dirty rags which appeared overnight on lamp posts.

So you are saying in your area people went to the trouble of getting ladders etc to hang flags from the lampposts that were dirty and torn? The new Green MP posted a video of her walking along a street where union flags had been mounted on lampposts. She has experience of working at height and commented on the skill to erect so many all at the same height. Of course she didn't like them and wished those skills had been put to 'better use' but she admired the skills necessary. I'm amazed that anyone would bother just to hoist dirty torn flags.

Where did they find these dirty, torn flags, I wonder?

Geri Halliwell's old dresses gone to the charity shop?

Perhaps if you got to know some of the people you are stereotyping Wyllow you might understand them better.
It is perfectly reasonable to discuss the need to speak English, those who don't will be much more disadvantaged than my children, sometimes I think that is what people want.
We are all different, my children have held a range of opinions in their time, many completely contradictory to mine.

Iam64

In my post questioning the negative assumptions associated with union flags and deprived areas, I pointed out one village with flags on every lamp post is one of the wealthiest in my town.

Some folk are so full of negative associations with the union and England flags they make assumptions which like,y have some but not total truth in them.

They’re our flags. We ought not to feel ashamed or threatened by them

100% agree.

twaddle Flags flying to celebrate festivals and supporting the military have been hung with different intent - as I'm sure you know. It is ingenuous to suggest that they represent the same values as the torn and dirty rags which appeared overnight on lamp posts.

So you are saying in your area people went to the trouble of getting ladders etc to hang flags from the lampposts that were dirty and torn? The new Green MP posted a video of her walking along a street where union flags had been mounted on lampposts. She has experience of working at height and commented on the skill to erect so many all at the same height. Of course she didn't like them and wished those skills had been put to 'better use' but she admired the skills necessary. I'm amazed that anyone would bother just to hoist dirty torn flags.

Sorry, went down a rabbit hole.

Back to the point of the thread.
The pro-Palestinian marches are extremely well-organised and seem to be well established now but should we be scrutinising them more carefully? I'm not saying they should stop altogether but monitored?

Should a sector of our society, peaceful people who threaten no-one, be made to feel so intimidated by others?

Ought, and are, are two different things. My family felt threatened, and concerned for their children. My 9 year old DGD repeated in front of me what she had heard from an influential local school mate. We were at mine, in a local park with a boating lake.

Many muslim families were there enjoying the day, and many boats just full of women, some with headscarves, some not. its along established community, 3rd or 4th generation - families producing doctors or teachers, etc etc.

Looking at the boats, she came out with, "why cant "they" learn English and wear "our " clothes"

Obviously there has been much putting right since, quiet chats, and including her grandad my Ex having her for a weekend in Manchester, and his neighbourhood is mixed race, including lovely friendly caring neighbours. Just going for a walk was enough, normal life.

People talk about "ghettos" culturally, but where they live sadly has also now got elements of that, fired up by those living in an all white area who don't actually mix with anything but white people plus take outs.

I don't think they are evil or anything like that, but I do sadly reflect on the effect far right propaganda has had so's it could happen in a primary school.

Shoulda taken a quick photo snap, but them someone might have come out and accused me of emergency wee-ing on the road outside their property 🤣

Another thread about clothes has a reference to a firm called Chums.
Apparently they sell contraptions which help with that problem 😀

I might investigate.

I am not in the slightest or by the people wealthy or poir who wave them. In my area it is very much deprived areas ( the areas whose people I thought were important to the labour party and its voters). In the middle class areas it would be associated with the church or an official event.

In my post questioning the negative assumptions associated with union flags and deprived areas, I pointed out one village with flags on every lamp post is one of the wealthiest in my town.

Some folk are so full of negative associations with the union and England flags they make assumptions which like,y have some but not total truth in them.

They’re our flags. We ought not to feel ashamed or threatened by them

Well in the area I mentioned, I had to pull into a small side road for a desperate wee.

But invisible from the road, were large UK and England flags, and a written statement on the gate of the property extolling Reform and all its values and ill thought out remarks about anyone who didn't agree.

Shoulda taken a quick photo snap, but them someone might have come out and accused me of emergency wee-ing on the road outside their property 🤣

twaddle

Oreo

twaddle

Who are "all" these people?

You know full well, the usual apologists.

Oh, them? Well, if you can actually come up with a meaningful answer, please try again.

Inteeesting that posters can change their name but not their style.

What that means is only a certain class can fly the flag. We also can't 'police' flags on what we think us going on in someone's head. If that was the case I would ban all pride flags as I think they are a symbol of misogyny.

Oreo

twaddle

Who are "all" these people?

You know full well, the usual apologists.

Oh, them? Well, if you can actually come up with a meaningful answer, please try again.

Iam64

Well - union flags arrived in many areas in my town, including the fairly wealthy, largely white areas. My village organised a St George’s day celebration. Numerous of the flags associated with him on display. Fun bbq and family entertainment. Our growing population of African asylum families joined the fun.

I do hope posters here who talk about union flags only appearing in areas of high deprivation, where they feel threatened by “the kind of people” who put the flags up, occasionally find places like mine to visit

I hope I'm not included in those kind of posters.

MartavTaurus

Well I can assure you that in sleepy, wealthy enough areas of Devon we have Union flags in many areas too. To celebrate all sorts of festivals, and also because we have many military people living here to whom we offer our support. It looks rather quaint.

I think you'd get a few frowns or laughs if you suggested this was due to deprivation, or hatred from ignoramuses.

Flags flying to celebrate festivals and supporting the military have been hung with different intent - as I'm sure you know. It is ingenuous to suggest that they represent the same values as the torn and dirty rags which appeared overnight on lamp posts.

Yes social media adds to the ease with which tropes are spread as truth.

We also have a role model for some in the Whitehouse, spilling bile with no challenge. Remember “they’re eating cats and dogs” and much worse. No challenge at all.

And social media

I agree with Oreo here. There has always been hatred of Jews. It has just come more to the surface now.
As a child in the 50s I was aware that people hated Jews I just didn't understand why and my questioning resulted in unsatisfactory answers.
There were attacks on Jews then but it has sadly increased.
A Jewish friend of my mum's was attacked and badly beaten by thugs in the 60s.
So the haters have always been there. It's nothing new but they are much more overt now and our society is more violent.

Caleo

Oreo

Remember that it isn’t just a few marches, it’s happened every week for years.This will and does seep into the way people think of Jews, any Jews anywhere in the world.

But there are many who are opposed to Israeli aggression towards Palestinians and who know Judaism to be a religion of peace.

There are also very many who simply hate Jews.

Deliberate acts of hostility (towards Jews) have been allowed to go on unchecked for quite a while.

So we need to question why that is.

Well I can assure you that in sleepy, wealthy enough areas of Devon we have Union flags in many areas too. To celebrate all sorts of festivals, and also because we have many military people living here to whom we offer our support. It looks rather quaint.

I think you'd get a few frowns or laughs if you suggested this was due to deprivation, or hatred from ignoramuses.

Well - union flags arrived in many areas in my town, including the fairly wealthy, largely white areas. My village organised a St George’s day celebration. Numerous of the flags associated with him on display. Fun bbq and family entertainment. Our growing population of African asylum families joined the fun.

I do hope posters here who talk about union flags only appearing in areas of high deprivation, where they feel threatened by “the kind of people” who put the flags up, occasionally find places like mine to visit