Another appalling attack

MartavTaurus

^Would it help if for that period the Pro Palestine peaceful protests desisted^
YES

and Jewish men refrained from wearing distinctive clothing in public?
Now that's a really difficult one to answer. The clothing is an expression of their culture and identity. It's their heritage, so why should they have to give it up?
On the other hand, could alternative ways be found of expressing that identity that don't draw attention to appearance? In the interests of personal safety?

We wouldn’t ask a Muslim female to not wear their hijab or niqab, we wouldn’t ask a Sikh male to not wear his turban.

So why on earth should we even be contemplating asking our Jewish friends and neighbours to make themselves appear less Jewish by men removing their kippah (skull cap), Tallit (prayer shawl) or Tzizit (fringed garment) or the garments of Hasidic Judaism?

Jewish is who and what they are…

I think you have to make a distinction between Reform Jews and Orthodox Jews. As you say Aveline, often there aren't any stand out physical features that would define them as such. Keir Starmer's wife being a prime example. Sometimes there are those that do look particularly Jewish, such as the late Amy Winehouse, but similarly she could have easily passed as either southern Mediterranean or even Egyptian or Turkish at a glance.

They're easily identifiable on their Sabbath going to and from synagogue, often in family groups, particularly in a Jewish enclave Names are also a pointer, I learned that when I worked for a Jewish firm. Look no further than Marks and Spencer, one of the founders a certain Mr Marks was Jewish.

Love0c* spot on 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

You wouldn’t guess I was Jewish either Aveline or many Jews I know as we go about our daily business but there are Jewish schools, residential care homes and synagogues that are well known in their neighbourhoods, also kosher shops and cafes.
Jewish businesses too.
That’s apart from all the Orthodox Jews who wear distinctive clothing.

In BBC last night there was an interview with a Jewish man moving to Israel. He said he didn't feel safe here in Manchester. I'd never have guessed he was Jewish. Friends who happen to be Jewish just look like everyone else round here. It's hard to know how they could be picked on. Genuinely puzzled.

love0c

To keep Jews safe in our country Labour must stop pandering to their core voters! The way Labour has pandered to them since the GE is what has escalated the violence and hatred towards the Jews.

If that were the reason, violent acts against Jewish people would be a UK phenomenon only, which sadly it isn’t. We need to do everything we can to make the UK safer for them, and we need to recognise too that we are not alone in this, and learn from, and work with other countries to address the underlying issues.

TheatreLover

valdali

twaddle

Galaxy

It is odd when these mental health episodes target Jews rather than I don't know Hindus or catholics, it seems to be a very specific type of 'mental health'.

They don't. The Southport girls and the students and grandfather in Nottingham weren't Jewish.

Nor was Jo Cox. Thomas Mair was a neo-Nazi but he murdered Jo because she campaigned for Remain and did work supporting refugees.

David Ames MP wasn't Jewish either. He was murdered in 2021 by Ali Harbinger Ali, a terrorist motivated by the Islamic State propaganda against MPs who voted for air strikes in Syria,

Ali Harbi Ali

Would it help if for that period the Pro Palestine peaceful protests desisted
YES

and Jewish men refrained from wearing distinctive clothing in public?
Now that's a really difficult one to answer. The clothing is an expression of their culture and identity. It's their heritage, so why should they have to give it up?
On the other hand, could alternative ways be found of expressing that identity that don't draw attention to appearance? In the interests of personal safety?

I understand your argument of damage limitation WW, but instructing anyone how they should dress particularly as to ethnic/religious attire is an emotive subject. Look at the furore we've had around the more extreme versions of Muslim attire when it's been suggested that's been a barrier to integration. In any case, in certain Jewish enclaves, an Orthodox Jew would be easily identifiable from features such as hair, women in wigs. The follow through on that suggestion would be "maybe they shouldn't go out" Similar in a way to the "Ripper's " reign of terror where that was mooted to women. It takes the onus of those who are responsible. As I mentioned previously this man was free to roam and as pointed out by Iam there are those spurred on by politicians who are fanning the flames of hatred.

valdali

twaddle

Galaxy

It is odd when these mental health episodes target Jews rather than I don't know Hindus or catholics, it seems to be a very specific type of 'mental health'.

They don't. The Southport girls and the students and grandfather in Nottingham weren't Jewish.

Nor was Jo Cox. Thomas Mair was a neo-Nazi but he murdered Jo because she campaigned for Remain and did work supporting refugees.

David Ames MP wasn't Jewish either. He was murdered in 2021 by Ali Harbinger Ali, a terrorist motivated by the Islamic State propaganda against MPs who voted for air strikes in Syria,

To keep Jews safe in our country Labour must stop pandering to their core voters! The way Labour has pandered to them since the GE is what has escalated the violence and hatred towards the Jews.

The threat of a terrorist attack has been elevated a notch for the next six months (I think that's correct).
Would it help if for that period the Pro Palestine peaceful protests desisted, and Jewish men refrained from wearing distinctive clothing in public?
Of course why should they. But if it would help to keep people safe...
The seeming fanaticism of the Middle East is pervading Western Europe. It can unbalance minds in ways that are not solvable by a 'mental health' label. If it was obvious what could be done to end it that would have been done. Little point in blaming politicians.
I don't believe that the British are inherently anti-semitic.
What is the best way out of this mess?

What is truly very worrying, the assailant, had previously knifed a police dog handler 7 times!!! A previous attempted murder surely? That was before the latest two attempts on those mens' lives. Begs the question was he one of the recently released dangerous prisoners. Surely a known would be murderer should not be at liberty to do the same thing again

The Greens have welcomed many from the so-called extreme left of the Labour Party, anti Israel belief systems are deeply held by many.

twaddle

Galaxy

It is odd when these mental health episodes target Jews rather than I don't know Hindus or catholics, it seems to be a very specific type of 'mental health'.

They don't. The Southport girls and the students and grandfather in Nottingham weren't Jewish.

Nor was Jo Cox. Thomas Mair was a neo-Nazi but he murdered Jo because she campaigned for Remain and did work supporting refugees.

I am too, as our local green councillors are truly...real greens. they have been infiltrated.
I have no problems with the local silent Gaza protest at the town hall, but they are not anti semitic. (I know them).

UK

Anniebach

Why should Jews in London not. Feel safe ?

Jews in the entire YK gave the right to feel safe, they have a right to walk on any street, go about their daily business, do their shopping, go to work, all feeling safe!

These attacks on Jews in our country, the country that offered sanctuary during WW2, is utterly unacceptable.

Iam64

As for Zac Polanski and the two prospective Green candidates arrested over alleged anti semitism - is anyone surprised ? I’m not in the least

Yes, actually, I am surprised.

Nope not a bit surprised, those who believe they are the good guys are in fact the bad guys. It is the least surprising thing ever.

As for Zac Polanski and the two prospective Green candidates arrested over alleged anti semitism - is anyone surprised ? I’m not in the least

sixandahalf

Allira

sixandahalf

There's some nasty stuff on this thread and including a silly face doesn't make it any less nasty.

What exactly do you term a silly face?

🤔 means hmm, that you are musing on something that has not been established in fact.

Attacking other posters constantly does not advance discussion.

Please, just stop. Thanks

Stop what??

😁

Anti semitism is as old as time. Jewish people have always been blamed for somehow causing it,

I’m shocked that anyone would suggest Jewish people should leave the areas they’ve built since arriving in the UK. North Manchester was cheap, mixed and close to work. It was also an area where poor Irish families settled. They kept the fires going on Shabath for theurcJewish neighbours,

. Prestwich is a now a thriving area, with many Jewish businesses , schools and families. Why any of my Jewish friends should consider abandoning their homes and support systems to try and hide is ludicrous.
Conflating the behaviour of the current Isreali government as somehow explaining and excusing anti semitism is disgusting.

My northern former mill town has a large Muslim community, of largely Pakistani heritage. No one is suggesting they should abandon their homes areas of town where they’re now the largest community because that’s where grandparents settled, near the mills in the fifties.

For the benefit of sixandahalf

Do not ascribe opinions to me because I state a fact.