Israel and US hit Iran

I don't believe it can ever be good. Yes, once sci-fi, now a new reality.

Wyllow3

So as now (just now) the Iranian current leader

(BBC News feed) "In a video address broadcast on Iranian state media, the country's President Masoud Pezeshkian apologises to neighbouring states and says Tehran will not attack them "unless attacked first". this may mean that slights can resume from neighbouring states.

Now, Trump has said contradictory things - one is that he will chose the next leader (as he did in Venezuela) ie a puppet dictator, and on the other hand "the people must choose a new leader acceptable to his administration"

Which amounts to the same thing really, doesnt it.

Is Trump likely to choose someone who will be radical and independent, a change in ideology, what the people demonstrating in the streets want

Or someone repressive under his control?

It is unlikely that the people could choose their own leader, the US knows that this could result in a leader at odds with US foreign policy and though millions in Iran want a more democratic less religious government there are many other millions who may disagree. There is still support for the regime among religious hardliners.
So possibly a repressive leader who will negotiate with the US and the west and disable any proxies.
At the end of the day it will be somebody who suits Trump and Netanyahus purposes not the people of Iran.

ronib

It’s the first time in history that the technology exists to take out a government which doesn’t have wide approval from outside powers. Whether this is used for the greater good and benefit remains unclear. However I think it gives the government in charge of the technology unlimited powers and control. Too sci-fi? But it’s happened.

Am afraid it can never be for the greater good. Right now because it is a western super power we probably hate what the US is doing but some will support it because Iran is a repressive regime.
But there are other superpowers that can do this, namely China and Russia, who will be arching a thoughtful eyebrow when watching this.
What is sauce for the US and Israel could equally be sauce for them.
It has set the most dangerous precedent in centuries.

I don't think there has ever been effective regime change without putting boots on the ground. What seems to be the plan is trying to bomb Iran into submitting to Trump's demands. IMO that won't work. Iran is a huge country with a big population and I fear there will be a civil war. That will suit Netanyahu as a country at war with itself won't be concerned with Israel, but it will lead to millions of people being killed or maimed. Most Iranians are already living in difficult circumstances, it will only get worse for them.

The Iranians are adamant that they won't give in until every soldier is dead. There are around a million of them so could take time.

By ‘Iranians’ you mean the regime, that’s what they are saying.
The truth could be very different.

Fallingstar

ronib

It’s the first time in history that the technology exists to take out a government which doesn’t have wide approval from outside powers. Whether this is used for the greater good and benefit remains unclear. However I think it gives the government in charge of the technology unlimited powers and control. Too sci-fi? But it’s happened.

Am afraid it can never be for the greater good. Right now because it is a western super power we probably hate what the US is doing but some will support it because Iran is a repressive regime.
But there are other superpowers that can do this, namely China and Russia, who will be arching a thoughtful eyebrow when watching this.
What is sauce for the US and Israel could equally be sauce for them.
It has set the most dangerous precedent in centuries.

Im sure removing Putin has been considered and would probably be welcomed by many even in Russia. Venezuelan and Iran were both possible and carried out.

The US and Israel see this war as the final solution for terrorism that will change the region permanently allowing prosperity and development for the whole Middle East. Lofty aims for sure, because there is no effective opposition in Iran it's hard to see how that is going to be achieved

No. These were ordinary Iranians not the regime. They believe it is an honour to die fighting for their country.

AGAA4

No. These were ordinary Iranians not the regime. They believe it is an honour to die fighting for their country.

Yes there are millions of Iranians who will seek martyrdom fighting for their country, millions of others might not and wish for a peaceful end to this or for regime change, but we are talking about 93 million people here. It is naive to assume they will all lie down and give up the fight.

AGAA4

No. These were ordinary Iranians not the regime. They believe it is an honour to die fighting for their country.

Then they’ll get loads of honour!

Fallingstar

AGAA4

No. These were ordinary Iranians not the regime. They believe it is an honour to die fighting for their country.

Yes there are millions of Iranians who will seek martyrdom fighting for their country, millions of others might not and wish for a peaceful end to this or for regime change, but we are talking about 93 million people here. It is naive to assume they will all lie down and give up the fight.

93 million, half that number will be women and children.
Half the number left will hate the regime there.

Not all soldiers, police and even IRG will want to die when it actually comes down to it.
Arab rhetoric is always dramatic.

I agree Oreo but that still leaves many millions.
And some who didn’t support the regime before may see their neighbours/loved ones killed in the bombing and decide to fight in order to get their revenge.

Considering that Trump has made his position quite clear, the new unelected Iranian leader will need to work extremely hard on his own physical security.

Fallingstar

I agree Oreo but that still leaves many millions.
And some who didn’t support the regime before may see their neighbours/loved ones killed in the bombing and decide to fight in order to get their revenge.

How would that even be possible? There’s no army on the ground to fight.

No there isn’t Oreo but it would be highly unusual if the regime were not calling for volunteers to join the IRG who can then be utilised in support of those using technologies to fight this war.

That takes time and training even if they wished to do it.

..and they would be killed.

A sad summary of how Iranians are feeling, a week on from the beginning of the war, is available to read in the Guardian.
Initial euphoria, at the death of the Leader.
Great concern now that Netanyahu intends to turn Iran into another Gaza.

I knew that would happen. poor demonstrators, hoping for an ideology change, instead facing friends family dead, no money to make good the economy, and ruled from the US of A. 😡

Naive to think otherwise whichever way you want to attempt to spin it.

Whitewavemark2

What is really alarming are the Christian evangelicals, who crave the second coming of Christ.

This will be achieved they argue by Armageddon in the ME. This is as far as they are concerned a Holy War, and must continue until the second coming is achieved.

Mad as a box of frogs! But to underestimate this insanity is a mistake I think.

The first paragraph would be correct.
Lords Prayer - "Thy kingdom come"

2nd paragraph - I dont know as much as some Christains about this. I personally dont think it needs at all to be what you describe?
I always thought it was God that did things to end things. Not man.

I always thought it was God that did things to end things. Not man.

There have always been a substantial number of men (and I say 'men' advisably) who believe that God is working through them to carry out his purposes.

ronib

It’s the first time in history that the technology exists to take out a government which doesn’t have wide approval from outside powers. Whether this is used for the greater good and benefit remains unclear. However I think it gives the government in charge of the technology unlimited powers and control. Too sci-fi? But it’s happened.

The program was written by a us tech company called Palantir.
The owner started PayPal.
This company were also awarded an nhs contract worth £440ml.

Wyllow3

So as now (just now) the Iranian current leader

(BBC News feed) "In a video address broadcast on Iranian state media, the country's President Masoud Pezeshkian apologises to neighbouring states and says Tehran will not attack them "unless attacked first". this may mean that slights can resume from neighbouring states.

Now, Trump has said contradictory things - one is that he will chose the next leader (as he did in Venezuela) ie a puppet dictator, and on the other hand "the people must choose a new leader acceptable to his administration"

Which amounts to the same thing really, doesnt it.

Is Trump likely to choose someone who will be radical and independent, a change in ideology, what the people demonstrating in the streets want

Or someone repressive under his control?

The only reason they are not going to bomb their neighbours is because they are running out of missiles.

Wyllow3

I don't believe it can ever be good. Yes, once sci-fi, now a new reality.

This surgeon was on the radio yesterday extolling the good aspects of AI.
He claimed these type of operations wouldn’t be possible without it.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq577v126g9o