I deplore Jim Ratcliffe's words. (owner of Man U)

LemonJam

MT62- "I’d just like it explained to me why we are becoming an island of strangers? Casdon"

In what way are we an island of strangers?

I don’t know? That’s what I want to know. It’s what KS said in one of speeches. Lemonjam

Flippen2; "I agree with him, he didn't put it the right way but...and also why is it that when you agree you're classed as racist?..."

If he put his view in the 'wrong' way what alternative form of words do you suggest Radcliffe should have use instead?

The actual words he used have been widely condemned as divisive, inflammatory and racist. Are you saying you agreed with the words he actually used, that he should not have been classed as 'racist" and if you used those words yourself people then be wrong to 'class' you of being racist?

MT62- an apology was made that the words were wrong. I don't think we have become an island of strangers- do you?

LemonJam

MT62- an apology was made that the words were wrong. I don't think we have become an island of strangers- do you?

I’ve never really thought about, until I heard his speech.

Casdon

We are all immigrants, it’s just that for some of us our families came here longer ago than others.

You said it.
My maternal grandmother came from County Cork.
What about our long established Indian and Caribbean and Chinese ( and other) citizens who have worked and paid taxes all their lives and lived decent lives ?
A British Citizen is a British Citizen and all British Citizens should be treated equally.
It's OK to hold these opinions and they can be part of considered discussions unfortunately they tend to provoke extremism.

I think if there was some reasonableness in this whole subject then it wouldnt be such a problem.

If some people recognised that people coming here illigal is just that - illegal.

That doing something illegal matters. Not something to be brushed away.

That it is not reasonable for a Country to make itself considerably poorer, and to put up with a severe loss of services for those already here.

But there is no middle ground it seems.

I think that annoys people as much as anything else.

Oh yes, and the "we cannot manage without immigrants in the NHS".
Said over and over and over and over.
It doesnt help the case. It weakens it.

Lemon jam
No I'm saying that some people immediately class others as racist because their view is different...my view,I don't believe the people coming over on the boats should be given priority housing over the amount of British citizens,no matter what colour or creed.. this is not the land of milk and honey they think it's going to be

Sorry, I don't get the bit about saying we need immigrants to work in social care, NHS etc 'weakening the argument'.

fancythat 15.54: "People coming here illegal is just that-illegal"

Radcliffe didn't specify whether he was talking about illegal or legal immigrants or both. Personally think the topic of legal and illegal immigration to the UK merits a separate thread as it detracts from Radcliffe's intentional divisive message.

Anyway fancythat- As you are using the term illegally, I am assuming you are referring to people seeking asylum coming by small boats etc? If not put me straight. The difficulty is that seeking asylum is not actually illegal as it's a fundamental right under international law. Thus there is no such thing as an "illegal asylum seeker."

That being said the UK has made it difficult to arrive by "safe and legal" routes, forcing many to use irregular methods, like small boats to reach the UK and claim protection. Recent UK laws, like the Nationality Borders Act 2022 aims to penalise arrivals via these irregular means, potentially limiting asylum for some, even though the international legal right still exists. The UK has made it such that you must actually be in the UK to have your asylum claim processed thereby creating the push for asylum seekers who must be in the country to get here by whichever route they can. The more governments close down safe legal routes, the more the push for small boat type arrivals.... Number of asylum seekers arriving last year to UK has been assessed as approximately 41, 472 by the migration Observatory. Highest crossings on record was 2022.

With wars, climate change leading to natural disasters and tyrannical regimes around the world there will always be those seeking safe asylum. I would be delighted to see a cross party coalition seeking solutions on this challenge that is facing all western countries.

I "class others as racist" not because they hold views that differ to mine but because they hold racist views. The trouble is that the vast majority of people don't seem to actually understand what "racism" is and shout "racism" when actually it's just old fashioned prejudice.

Jim Ratcliffe not only used incorrect statistics to illustrate his views, he also completely misused the word "colonised" which made a complete nonsense of what he was trying to say. Is he a racist based on what he said? Probably. Do I agree with him? No but I do think we need to improve the way that we process asylum seekers and removing the means to apply for asylum from a third country means they actually have to be in the UK, this feeds the need to use dangerous small boats.

Having spent time in hospital, many of the nursing and medical staff were in the uk perfectly legally on work visas. People here on work or study visas make up the majority of newly arrived immigrants and there is currently a net decrease of immigration not an increase.

Flippen2 "I agree with him, he didn't put it the right way but...and also why is it that when you agree you're classed as racist?..."

Flippen2 16.36: 'No I'm saying that some people immediately class others as racist because their view is different...my view,I don't believe the people coming over on the boats should be given priority housing over the amount of British citizens,no matter what colour or creed.. this is not the land of milk and honey they think it's going to be".

That's not what Radcliffe said however. It's not clear what posters are actually agreeing with when they say they agree with what Radcliffe said but then explain they mean something different to what he actually said...Thanks for clarifying.

fwiw Asylum seekers do not get priority housing. they get basic temporary housing whilst their claim is processed. The claim process can be very lengthy and often the housing is extremely poor with a weekly allowance of £49.18. This is hardly a land of milk and honey.

Maremia

Sorry, I don't get the bit about saying we need immigrants to work in social care, NHS etc 'weakening the argument'.

If you already got the message the first time, or knew it anyway, if you then get told the same thing 100 more times literally, then you start to look at the person[s] who is[are] still telling or sending it.

Opal

Visit any big city in the UK - colonies, communities, no go areas, or whatever you want to call them, are in EVERY SINGLE ONE. Proof enough for me.

Rubbish 🤦🏼‍♀️ I know my city very well ( Southend on sea) I can assure you that we have no no go areas.

👏👏👏

fancythat 16.35 'Oh yes, and the "we cannot manage without immigrants in the NHS". Said over and over and over and over.
It doesnt help the case. It weakens it".

Maremia- "Sorry, I don't get the bit about saying we need immigrants to work in social care, NHS etc 'doesn't help the case it weakens it".

fancythat 17.39: "If you already got the message the first time, or knew it anyway, if you then get told the same thing 100 more times literally, then you start to look at the person[s] who is[are] still telling or sending it".

fancythat- like Maremia I also don't understand what you actually mean in your 16.35 post as quoted above? Weaken what case and in what way? fancythat I also don't understand your 17.39 reply?

MG55 Love your post! Just to add that immigrant labour has helped to enrich people like Ratcliffe, just like they have helped to enrich this country.

MG55 👏👏👏- so true!

Opal- every city has 'communities' as do all villages and towns. 'Colonies of immigrants' though in every city- really!!?? What do you actually mean by a colony of immigrants anyway?

My maternal grandmother came from County Cork

like that’s the same as someone coming from a country a million miles away, not speaking a word of English, and having a completely different cultural

These threads are hilarious.

MG55
Re/. Your photo.
What are your thoughts on this latest news item?

Two men who planned to target the Jewish community in Manchester in what police said could have been "the UK's most deadly terror attack" have been jailed for life.
Walid Saadaoui, 38, and Amar Hussein, 52, arranged for guns to be smuggled into the UK as part of an "Isis-inspired plot", Preston Crown Court heard.
They were caught by an undercover operative who played a "crucial role" in foiling their plans, Greater Manchester Police said.

We’ll blow me down with a feather. There I was thinking invaders of the past spoke foreign languages and were from different cultures at a time when most Britons didn’t know anybody from outside their own small community.

foxie48

fwiw Asylum seekers do not get priority housing. they get basic temporary housing whilst their claim is processed. The claim process can be very lengthy and often the housing is extremely poor with a weekly allowance of £49.18. This is hardly a land of milk and honey.

It said on tv the other day that asylum seekers often end up rough sleeping after they have been legally allowed to stay.

Kadinsky- MG55 posted the message outside MUFC- a great sentiment and clear message to Jim Radcliffe when he visits..

See 15.57 post regarding those terrorists- not sure what they have to do with Jim Radcliffe or MUFC. Surely you are not suggesting all legal immigrants and asylum seekers are terrorists- crikey? You infer however some connection between those three terrorists and legal and/or illegal immigrants to the UK- but do not explain what link you see. Do you care to explain?

Kandinsky

MG55
Re/. Your photo.
What are your thoughts on this latest news item?

Two men who planned to target the Jewish community in Manchester in what police said could have been "the UK's most deadly terror attack" have been jailed for life.
Walid Saadaoui, 38, and Amar Hussein, 52, arranged for guns to be smuggled into the UK as part of an "Isis-inspired plot", Preston Crown Court heard.
They were caught by an undercover operative who played a "crucial role" in foiling their plans, Greater Manchester Police said.

It is a very worrying situation and thank goodness the police picked up on it.
Hate of any group of people is untenable 🙁