I deplore Jim Ratcliffe's words. (owner of Man U)

sundowngirl

Perhaps they are disillusioned with the government and concerned that far too much money is being spent on the illegal immigrants. when it could possibly be spent on other issues that are affecting them.

But do "these people" understand that only around 6% of immigrants are irregular? I find "these people" dont. (as per doorstep and other conversations encounters.
Our country needs immigrants. Our birthrate is lower than the aging population and we dont train enough people in some professions and some of our home grown unemployed wont work in care homes and agriculture (and given the wages, and Aro hour contracts, its not surprising)

sundowngirl I find you use of the term "illegal" of people offensive and also something of a misunderstanding of the law.

People cannot be "illegal immigrants" because our national policy is and has been for a very, very long time that people are legally allowed to seek asylum in our country, and indeed it's a proud record that we do.
They are then assessed as to whether they are indeed genuine asylum seeker or should be deported.

I also instinctively find calling any human being "illegal". It is not illegal to be a human being. Thats why the term "irregular immigrant" is now used as in entering the country outside of the official immigration system. Please dont.

Yes, Maybee. It's the appeal to the amygdala, the lizard brain. It reacts to threats, often overriding the logical, conscious, and thinking part of the brain, the prefrontal cortex.

It's what papers like the Mail, Express and increasingly the DT appeal to, making people think they are under existential threat when they are not. Reform have honed this manipulation into a fine art.

But do "these people" understand that only around 6% of immigrants are irregular?

only??

And we all know by now that[personally I cannot see how 130,000 or whatever the figure is, makes up 6% of the population]
they actually enter illegally. No matter how many people try and make and say it to not look like that.

And every knows "our country needs immigrants"
Even been discussed further up thread.

they actually enter illegally.

Does it have to be said, yet again, that for some asylum seekers the 'legal' routes are not available to them because of the very conditions from which they are seeking asylum

Wyllow3

sundowngirl

Perhaps they are disillusioned with the government and concerned that far too much money is being spent on the illegal immigrants. when it could possibly be spent on other issues that are affecting them.

But do "these people" understand that only around 6% of immigrants are irregular? I find "these people" dont. (as per doorstep and other conversations encounters.
Our country needs immigrants. Our birthrate is lower than the aging population and we dont train enough people in some professions and some of our home grown unemployed wont work in care homes and agriculture (and given the wages, and Aro hour contracts, its not surprising)

sundowngirl I find you use of the term "illegal" of people offensive and also something of a misunderstanding of the law.

People cannot be "illegal immigrants" because our national policy is and has been for a very, very long time that people are legally allowed to seek asylum in our country, and indeed it's a proud record that we do.
They are then assessed as to whether they are indeed genuine asylum seeker or should be deported.

I also instinctively find calling any human being "illegal". It is not illegal to be a human being. Thats why the term "irregular immigrant" is now used as in entering the country outside of the official immigration system. Please dont.

Errrm....there are problems with the idea of "homegrown unemployed won't work in care homes and agriculture" and the first two thoughts that came to my mind as to why not (quoting ones that would influence me personally) are:

- I've talked to more than one person who worked in or was trying to get work in carehomes and one got blackmailed into having "that jab" (ie the Covid one that he himself had decided against) in order to be able to ask for carehome work. Another one I talked with that had been working in a carehome for some time before those jabs came along got blackmailed into it as well (or he'd have been unfairly dismissed). That's two I can think of

I'll admit too to wondering exactly what duties anyone would have wanted from me - even in Normal Times - and I'd be okay (if need be) with serving meals, normal type housework (ie similar to what I'd do in my own home). But I'm well aware there are tasks I wouldnt want to do/wouldnt do (ie of a more "personal" nature) and I admire people who can cope with that sort of task - but I know I couldnt/wouldnt personally (as I'm too squeamish basically).

As for agriculture - ditto "That's a no from me". It's too hard physical work and literally one day doing it at a much younger age than now (ie whilst a teenager) was a case of "helping to deadhead flowers in a greenhouse" as I recall and cue for being far too hot, not told how to deal with needing a glass of water or three when needed and so I just assumed I could use the tap I spotted in the greenhouse (cue for diarrhoea that day - as no-one had indicated in any way that it wasnt fit to drink and I think it had come straight from a nearby stream. Good job they only made me sick for a few hours and no further harm than that). An older person would probably have found it rather more strenuous than I did.

So - yep.....genuine query of = Where do unemployed people find reasonable condition office jobs and the like from? (goodness knows that was hard enough in a city back in the 1980s and hence two of my spells of unemployment were months, rather than weeks, in length).

So - yep...there is a variety of issues there - ie how to get these jobs done - without expecting to force us into them...and I don't have any answers to that quandary myself.

MaizieD

^they actually enter illegally.^

Does it have to be said, yet again, that for some asylum seekers the 'legal' routes are not available to them because of the very conditions from which they are seeking asylum

Apparently is does, Maizie. Over and over and over again. I could post a link to the law about this but those who repeatedly call people illegal won’t read it so what’s the point?

You are right. A dreadful thread and an increasingly dreadful site.

I wonder what potential investors in Justine Roberts’ business think when they see it? That’s why the Saga platform was shut down. I can see this going the same way.

Does it have to be said, yet again, that for some asylum seekers the 'legal' routes are not available to them because of the very conditions from which they are seeking asylum hmm

No it doesnt

Everyone know s that.

So why say it again.

Calendargirl

I felt he wasn’t meaning immigrants who came after the war, the Windrush generation and others, who we invited and needed to work for the NHS, the transport system, factories and so on.

He was talking about the last few years when it’s all so different.

His choice of words wasn’t the best, I think he realised that afterwards, but many will agree with his sentiments.

I did.

Agreed ... it is NOT the hard working people that wanted to come here to contribute, it is obviously the hundreds of thousands of young fit men that both our governments have brought in, for what nefarious purpose has yet to become clear, but I fear it won't be good.

They ae bringing in diseases that have been eradicated here for years and many have some rather unhygienic habits that aren't acceptable in the UK; then of course there's the criminality of some against our women and girls. If anyone is still thinking it's ok that they are here, then I hope that you are putting a roof over the heads of a few of them?

I[and millions of other people] would not dream of entering a country illegally.

The clue is in the word illegal.

And this is what partly alarms me and millions of other people - that others deem that to be perfectly ok.

It so is not!!!!!!!

My goodness Willow3 you do get offended easily.

The people arrived here illegally whatever spin you try to put on it. Calling them 'irregular' doesn't change the fact that thousands of (mainly) undocumented men are arriving daily on our shores and it is unsustainable.

When will the numbers become too many??

Are the incomers (is it ok to use that term?) here legally?
The answer is NO.
Therefore they are here illegally.

sundowngirl

My goodness Willow3 you do get offended easily.

The people arrived here illegally whatever spin you try to put on it. Calling them 'irregular' doesn't change the fact that thousands of (mainly) undocumented men are arriving daily on our shores and it is unsustainable.

When will the numbers become too many??

I agree, and the numbers are already too many.

CariadAgain I work in a care home.If people out of work think they are above that kind of work and would prefer to stay at home with their feet up, fine, but the government shouldn’t be paying out a penny in benefits to them.

Primrose53

Are the incomers (is it ok to use that term?) here legally?
The answer is NO.
Therefore they are here illegally.

Isn't that decided once they are here? If they are here illegally then yes they are illegal. If the process approves their application then they aren't illegal and are able to settle here, work, live their lives.

Oreo - I very much doubt anyone thinks they are "above" working in a carehome. I think it's easy to see how "difficult" emotionally speaking it must be to do many of the tasks doubtless required as part of the job - hence why I stated I admire people who can stomach some of the tasks that I'm sure are involved - as I know I wouldnt be able to handle it myself and I think a noticeable number of other people wouldnt either.

All part of why I've never wanted children and was never a "carer" (though I did have the relevant Social Work team onto me personally at one point trying to get me to do that for them for my mother - cue for me saying firmly "There is a sibling....there's 4 of him in his family but only one of me. He's got a car and I havent. The four of them all live a lot nearer than me"). Cue for I think I landed up slamming the phone down on them - as they simply weren't listening to the logical situation of my erstwhile brother and his family were a lot better placed than single me to deal with all that. That was before I got onto "He's her favourite child and she doesnt get on with me/never has". So - yep....all the personal emotional stuff that will also be part of being a carer is something I know I couldnt do.

theworriedwell

Primrose53

Are the incomers (is it ok to use that term?) here legally?
The answer is NO.
Therefore they are here illegally.

Isn't that decided once they are here? If they are here illegally then yes they are illegal. If the process approves their application then they aren't illegal and are able to settle here, work, live their lives.

Now that should be interesting to know just how long it takes (if ever) before they cross the boundary from illegal to legal.

I'd be willing to bet a lot of them never do cross that boundary. There's probably lots that never even start up the official application process - they've got a job/they've got some sort of place to live = why would they regard becoming "legal" as necessary even if that's the case. After all learning English seems to be regarded as an "optional extra" - rather than compulsory to live here.

Oreo

CariadAgain I work in a care home.If people out of work think they are above that kind of work and would prefer to stay at home with their feet up, fine, but the government shouldn’t be paying out a penny in benefits to them.

Not everyone can do care home work for various reasons and some people should definitely not be care home workers.
Some of the dreadful happenings in care homes means that they need to be even more careful who they take on.

AGAA4

Oreo

CariadAgain I work in a care home.If people out of work think they are above that kind of work and would prefer to stay at home with their feet up, fine, but the government shouldn’t be paying out a penny in benefits to them.

Not everyone can do care home work for various reasons and some people should definitely not be care home workers.
Some of the dreadful happenings in care homes means that they need to be even more careful who they take on.

Very true.

It is my personal opinion that people who are used to bringing up babies and/or being a carer in their own personal life have already demonstrated they're willingness (well preparedness at least) to do some of the grottier type of tasks.

Hence ruling myself out from that - though I'd never be nasty to them and, in fact, more likely to be told off for sitting chatting to them or helping them to break free from any unreasonable care home rules. Yep....my own personality being a questioning one would equal I'd be there querying on their behalf "Why cant they be given what they want at mealtimes? Why are they expected to have mealtimes when you want - rather than when they want?". Once a questioner - always a questioner.

But yep...I think we've all read of some people who really should not work in that sort of environment - because they are "taking it out" on people who don't deserve it/can't defend themselves. Now what was that drug again from 2020 or so - Midozalam? I rest my case....

It has been an invasion, agree you cannot have 9 million on benefits, unemployed and more yet people
arriving each day, just ridiculous, who do you think us keeping them.. He said what he thought but you cannot do that here anymore mores the pity.

CariadAgain

AGAA4

Oreo

CariadAgain I work in a care home.If people out of work think they are above that kind of work and would prefer to stay at home with their feet up, fine, but the government shouldn’t be paying out a penny in benefits to them.

Not everyone can do care home work for various reasons and some people should definitely not be care home workers.
Some of the dreadful happenings in care homes means that they need to be even more careful who they take on.

Very true.

It is my personal opinion that people who are used to bringing up babies and/or being a carer in their own personal life have already demonstrated they're willingness (well preparedness at least) to do some of the grottier type of tasks.

Hence ruling myself out from that - though I'd never be nasty to them and, in fact, more likely to be told off for sitting chatting to them or helping them to break free from any unreasonable care home rules. Yep....my own personality being a questioning one would equal I'd be there querying on their behalf "Why cant they be given what they want at mealtimes? Why are they expected to have mealtimes when you want - rather than when they want?". Once a questioner - always a questioner.

But yep...I think we've all read of some people who really should not work in that sort of environment - because they are "taking it out" on people who don't deserve it/can't defend themselves. Now what was that drug again from 2020 or so - Midozalam? I rest my case....

Exactly! Now I've always been a 'carer', had children and a nurse and Care Home Manager for adults with a learning disability and challenging behaviour. But sadly now, I am the one who needs the care ...

I do NOT want some gum chewing local youth coming to help me wash and dress and do personal care just because they won't get help from Universal Credit if they don't!! I will stick with my Romanian, Hungarian, Polish, Brazilian and Zimbawean girls thanks; they care, came here to do the job and are now my friends. I wouldn't be without them!!

Allsorts

It has been an invasion, agree you cannot have 9 million on benefits, unemployed and more yet people
arriving each day, just ridiculous, who do you think us keeping them.. He said what he thought but you cannot do that here anymore mores the pity.

Absolutely right.

Allsorts

It has been an invasion, agree you cannot have 9 million on benefits, unemployed and more yet people
arriving each day, just ridiculous, who do you think us keeping them.. He said what he thought but you cannot do that here anymore mores the pity.

The voices will no longer keep quiet.
And nor will the votes.

Governments are taking no notice[well lip service at best]

I wonder what will come next.
It wont be pretty, whatever happens.

Never is when you have governments taking no notce of a vast amount of people.

I suspect government is already two steps ahead.
Again, wont be pretty.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

I have to add that I admire care home workers greatly. Those who really do care for the people who need them.
They should be paid a lot more for what they do.

Ratcliffes comments were meant to be divisive. What else did he hope to achieve by saying what he did. He is an economic migrant living in Monaco, to avoid paying taxes where Man United are based. What millionaires and billionaires, who earn money in this country but chose to locate abroad, are doing is taking money out of our economy. They do more economic damage than migrants. Why does he think migrants do not pay tax? He is like all the other agitators who cannot distinguish between migrants, illegal migrants, asylum seekers and the native unemployed! Shame on him and all those who blindly agree with him without thinking of the consequences of blaming the more marginalised in our society while ignoring the damage multimillionaires and billionaires tax avoiders are doing to our country.