Why Europe is WAY More Powerful Than You Think

I have considered Europe weaker than I thought, well since coming on GN with posters saying it is strong!

As I have said many times before, it can hardly agree on which coffee to use at meetings[joke[may not be for all I know![. But you get my drift.

Even recent since about xmas, where is/was it on Venezuela, Greenland, Ukraine etc etc.
People soon go quiet talking about how stron Europe actually is, then.
Short memories. About 6 weeks!

Wishing Europe to be strong, and the reality, are two very different things.

Should be the word events, after the word recent.

fancythat

nanna8

Well there are enough people there and it certainly would be extremely powerful if they were in accord. Pigs may fly though.

I read somewhere that Nigeria now has a higher birthrate, than the whole of Europe and Russia combined.

Very high birth rate of many African countries, all want to migrate to the west

The states in the USA are not sovereign states unlike the member states of the EU.

Grantanow

The states in the USA are not sovereign states unlike the member states of the EU.

No they are not but t hey have already agreed common economic policy, agreed foreign policy is a step further, as in the US

I bet this video is really good, and I Will watch it later. I just didn't have the patience to sit through this Rumple character's whining presentation manner..

He thinks he is really cool. But sounds like someone out of it on cannabis. Really sad ageing hippy.Think Spinal Tap.

Total lack of professionalism

Is his father Rumplestiltkin?

He gets better WithNobsOnIt and sounds more like a normal human being. The introduction - first two sentences - have got, shall we say, more exaggerated over time! Someone must have told him they like it!

Grantanow

The states in the USA are not sovereign states unlike the member states of the EU.

No, they are Federal aren't they? Isn't Germany federalised but within a sovereign state?

Actually this is a rabbit hole. Please ignore!

I think it is possible that Europe will now continue on the path to being stronger.

Maremia

I think it is possible that Europe will now continue on the path to being stronger.

I agree. There is an ever present threat from Russia and we have to be able to stand up to it.

I've put another video up here Maremia

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1356082-Plan-to-Reverse-Brexit-With-European-Defence

I found it very thought provoking but it gives insight into how Europe could become stronger.

Basgetti

Not a surprise to many of us. We were idiots to leave. Hopefully, a temporary blip.

We never really joined in that we held on to our currency instead of handing control of it over to Germany.

I should watch the video. It talking about one specific area, not a complete return.

DaisyAnneReturns

I should watch the video. It talking about one specific area, not a complete return.

Europe does need to have a common Defence policy, that goes hand in hand with Foreign policy, it's difficult to imagine one without the other. How that is achieved with the diversity of governments we have across Europe at present I just don't know. There are many national interests that will obstruct unity, not to mention personal ambition of polititians.

Rubio in his speech spoke about "reindustrializing" Europe and the US, if we are to generate enough money pay for defence to counter any threat from Russia and China it's pretty essential.

We have plenty of resources to do that but do we have the commitment.?.

I’d be interested to know the truth about how close China and Russia actually are. Very close I suspect. Many years ago ,on our first visit to China ,I was surprised at the number of Russian buildings and the amount of Russian influence there. Maybe nothing much has changed behind the scenes, though China looks very different now.

David49

DaisyAnneReturns

I should watch the video. It talking about one specific area, not a complete return.

Europe does need to have a common Defence policy, that goes hand in hand with Foreign policy, it's difficult to imagine one without the other. How that is achieved with the diversity of governments we have across Europe at present I just don't know. There are many national interests that will obstruct unity, not to mention personal ambition of polititians.

Re a common defence policy - I think so too.

This may be slightly grasping at straws policy but it would take forever to rejoined the EU so I wonder if this could be part of an outer ring to the EU? Not thought it through yet though.

David49

Rubio in his speech spoke about "reindustrializing" Europe and the US, if we are to generate enough money pay for defence to counter any threat from Russia and China it's pretty essential.

We have plenty of resources to do that but do we have the commitment.?.

Agreed.

nanna8

I’d be interested to know the truth about how close China and Russia actually are. Very close I suspect. Many years ago ,on our first visit to China ,I was surprised at the number of Russian buildings and the amount of Russian influence there. Maybe nothing much has changed behind the scenes, though China looks very different now.

Prior to Ukraine they weren't, Russia was moving towards the west, travel was fairly free many western companies were trading.
Invading Ukraine and sanctions changed all that, Putin reasserted his control over Russia, that what its really about his power. He turned eastwards China was only too pleased to have cheap oil, gas, food and other resources, when Ukraine is resolved they will stay in the Chinese sphere, China with all Russias resources is a threat to the west

nanna8

I’d be interested to know the truth about how close China and Russia actually are. Very close I suspect. Many years ago ,on our first visit to China ,I was surprised at the number of Russian buildings and the amount of Russian influence there. Maybe nothing much has changed behind the scenes, though China looks very different now.

I’d be interested to know as well nanna8. Their relationship does seem strategically aligned at the moment, but it’s hard to know how deep that alignment really goes.

David49

nanna8

I’d be interested to know the truth about how close China and Russia actually are. Very close I suspect. Many years ago ,on our first visit to China ,I was surprised at the number of Russian buildings and the amount of Russian influence there. Maybe nothing much has changed behind the scenes, though China looks very different now.

Prior to Ukraine they weren't, Russia was moving towards the west, travel was fairly free many western companies were trading.
Invading Ukraine and sanctions changed all that, Putin reasserted his control over Russia, that what its really about his power. He turned eastwards China was only too pleased to have cheap oil, gas, food and other resources, when Ukraine is resolved they will stay in the Chinese sphere, China with all Russias resources is a threat to the west

Interesting David. There is much we don't know (aren't necessarily told). There has though, been much talk about the movement of the Great Powers - that certainly seems to be on Putin's and Trump's mind and, I would guess( knowing little about it) China's.

Europe (and possibly my wished for an outer Europe?) needs to wake up. I think and hope they are quiet because they a a) busy sorting it and b) trying to stay under the radar. Some of me thinks that the only "power" that can limit Russia and the USA is Europe but I know too little about China. It's good to have nanna8's input!

I don't know much about China but it doesn't seem to be a war faring country. That doesn't mean it isn't dangerous.
I think they will infiltrate other countries by stealth rather than force.
They have spies everywhere.

AGAA4

I don't know much about China but it doesn't seem to be a war faring country. That doesn't mean it isn't dangerous.
I think they will infiltrate other countries by stealth rather than force.
They have spies everywhere.

i think they will infiltrate other countries by stealth
They have infiltrated other countries by stealth.
We first noticed it when travelling in North Macedonia and Serbia ( they are building huge coal mines there)
But the most concerning is their infiltration of European shipping ports.

www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/ATAG/2023/739367/EPRS_ATA(2023)739367_EN.pdf

Thank you petra. I think the Chinese are quite clever in the way they are infiltrating other countries. It's worrying. Taking over quietly without using force.

China is playing the long game quietly making other countries dependent on them, whilst building military power to rival the US. China don't give any aid without a direct payback. The west and the US in particular has been giving far too much and getting little back in return.