Why Europe is WAY More Powerful Than You Think

Sealady

Coincidentally watched this today. Very interesting- useful information.Worth a watch

Good to hear you also found it interesting Sealady. The Amercan watching it and commenting is obviously educated but it still seemed to take him by suprise. They've given the Americans such a weird view of themselves that the truth will be very hard for many I think.

fancythat

They never recovered after Brexit.
Not properly.

Then Germany fell apart.

Havd to agree that seems a bit meaningless fancythat. Could you put some fat on it?

Coincidentally watched this today. Very interesting- useful information.Worth a watch

fancythat

They never recovered after Brexit.
Not properly.

Then Germany fell apart.

You're going to have to explain that

They never recovered after Brexit.
Not properly.

Then Germany fell apart.

Maremia

I think it is possible that Europe will now continue on the path to being stronger.

Cant see it myself.

They had their time and blew it.
In my opinion.

They are now a shadow of what they were.

"One thing that is noticeable is Chinese influence and involvement in many of the Pacific Islands too.
Building ports and harbours, loans, aid and agreements with governments in that region."

Not to mention the Indian Ocean and Chagos, the Chinese badly want Diego Garcia as a base to dominate that region. Most of Africa has Chinese debt it can't repay and Chinese owned businesses are beginning to dominant the commerce in many places.

petra

AGAA4

I don't know much about China but it doesn't seem to be a war faring country. That doesn't mean it isn't dangerous.
I think they will infiltrate other countries by stealth rather than force.
They have spies everywhere.

i think they will infiltrate other countries by stealth
They have infiltrated other countries by stealth.
We first noticed it when travelling in North Macedonia and Serbia ( they are building huge coal mines there)
But the most concerning is their infiltration of European shipping ports.

www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/ATAG/2023/739367/EPRS_ATA(2023)739367_EN.pdf

I'd be interested too.

One thing that is noticeable is Chinese influence and involvement in many of the Pacific Islands too.
Building ports and harbours, loans, aid and agreements with governments in that region.

China is playing the long game quietly making other countries dependent on them, whilst building military power to rival the US. China don't give any aid without a direct payback. The west and the US in particular has been giving far too much and getting little back in return.

Thank you petra. I think the Chinese are quite clever in the way they are infiltrating other countries. It's worrying. Taking over quietly without using force.

AGAA4

I don't know much about China but it doesn't seem to be a war faring country. That doesn't mean it isn't dangerous.
I think they will infiltrate other countries by stealth rather than force.
They have spies everywhere.

i think they will infiltrate other countries by stealth
They have infiltrated other countries by stealth.
We first noticed it when travelling in North Macedonia and Serbia ( they are building huge coal mines there)
But the most concerning is their infiltration of European shipping ports.

www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/ATAG/2023/739367/EPRS_ATA(2023)739367_EN.pdf

I don't know much about China but it doesn't seem to be a war faring country. That doesn't mean it isn't dangerous.
I think they will infiltrate other countries by stealth rather than force.
They have spies everywhere.

David49

nanna8

I’d be interested to know the truth about how close China and Russia actually are. Very close I suspect. Many years ago ,on our first visit to China ,I was surprised at the number of Russian buildings and the amount of Russian influence there. Maybe nothing much has changed behind the scenes, though China looks very different now.

Prior to Ukraine they weren't, Russia was moving towards the west, travel was fairly free many western companies were trading.
Invading Ukraine and sanctions changed all that, Putin reasserted his control over Russia, that what its really about his power. He turned eastwards China was only too pleased to have cheap oil, gas, food and other resources, when Ukraine is resolved they will stay in the Chinese sphere, China with all Russias resources is a threat to the west

Interesting David. There is much we don't know (aren't necessarily told). There has though, been much talk about the movement of the Great Powers - that certainly seems to be on Putin's and Trump's mind and, I would guess( knowing little about it) China's.

Europe (and possibly my wished for an outer Europe?) needs to wake up. I think and hope they are quiet because they a a) busy sorting it and b) trying to stay under the radar. Some of me thinks that the only "power" that can limit Russia and the USA is Europe but I know too little about China. It's good to have nanna8's input!

nanna8

I’d be interested to know the truth about how close China and Russia actually are. Very close I suspect. Many years ago ,on our first visit to China ,I was surprised at the number of Russian buildings and the amount of Russian influence there. Maybe nothing much has changed behind the scenes, though China looks very different now.

I’d be interested to know as well nanna8. Their relationship does seem strategically aligned at the moment, but it’s hard to know how deep that alignment really goes.

nanna8

I’d be interested to know the truth about how close China and Russia actually are. Very close I suspect. Many years ago ,on our first visit to China ,I was surprised at the number of Russian buildings and the amount of Russian influence there. Maybe nothing much has changed behind the scenes, though China looks very different now.

Prior to Ukraine they weren't, Russia was moving towards the west, travel was fairly free many western companies were trading.
Invading Ukraine and sanctions changed all that, Putin reasserted his control over Russia, that what its really about his power. He turned eastwards China was only too pleased to have cheap oil, gas, food and other resources, when Ukraine is resolved they will stay in the Chinese sphere, China with all Russias resources is a threat to the west

David49

Rubio in his speech spoke about "reindustrializing" Europe and the US, if we are to generate enough money pay for defence to counter any threat from Russia and China it's pretty essential.

We have plenty of resources to do that but do we have the commitment.?.

Agreed.

David49

DaisyAnneReturns

I should watch the video. It talking about one specific area, not a complete return.

Europe does need to have a common Defence policy, that goes hand in hand with Foreign policy, it's difficult to imagine one without the other. How that is achieved with the diversity of governments we have across Europe at present I just don't know. There are many national interests that will obstruct unity, not to mention personal ambition of polititians.

Re a common defence policy - I think so too.

This may be slightly grasping at straws policy but it would take forever to rejoined the EU so I wonder if this could be part of an outer ring to the EU? Not thought it through yet though.

I’d be interested to know the truth about how close China and Russia actually are. Very close I suspect. Many years ago ,on our first visit to China ,I was surprised at the number of Russian buildings and the amount of Russian influence there. Maybe nothing much has changed behind the scenes, though China looks very different now.

Rubio in his speech spoke about "reindustrializing" Europe and the US, if we are to generate enough money pay for defence to counter any threat from Russia and China it's pretty essential.

We have plenty of resources to do that but do we have the commitment.?.

DaisyAnneReturns

I should watch the video. It talking about one specific area, not a complete return.

Europe does need to have a common Defence policy, that goes hand in hand with Foreign policy, it's difficult to imagine one without the other. How that is achieved with the diversity of governments we have across Europe at present I just don't know. There are many national interests that will obstruct unity, not to mention personal ambition of polititians.

I should watch the video. It talking about one specific area, not a complete return.

Basgetti

Not a surprise to many of us. We were idiots to leave. Hopefully, a temporary blip.

We never really joined in that we held on to our currency instead of handing control of it over to Germany.

I've put another video up here Maremia

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1356082-Plan-to-Reverse-Brexit-With-European-Defence

I found it very thought provoking but it gives insight into how Europe could become stronger.

Maremia

I think it is possible that Europe will now continue on the path to being stronger.

I agree. There is an ever present threat from Russia and we have to be able to stand up to it.

I think it is possible that Europe will now continue on the path to being stronger.