King’s Distant cousin says Historian

ExaltedWombat

sassenach512

I joined a history site on FB It amuses me how many people, usually from the US, who jump straight in and claim heritage with the king or queen being discussed. One even claimed he was descended from William the Conqueror.
They never seem to be descended from Dick the grave digger or Ned the miller.

You mean you haven’t heard the rumours about Dick the gravedigger and Queen Mary? Apparently his name was no coincidence.

Ned the miller.

My Step-Great-Grandad was a miller but, of course, I'm not descended from him.
He wasn't called Ned, he had a more unusual name than that.

John Brown became the Queen's servant in 1864 when the Queen, born in 1817 would have been 47.

I doubt any personal or physical relationship would have been instant so she would have been 50 or more when she had this mythical baby.

Remember this was in the late 1860s/70s. Even today when people, even royalty are healthier and the medical knowledge and care around giving birth has improved exponentially, conceiving a baby naturally over the age of 50 is almost unknown.

I think this rumour must fail under the heavy weight of Queen Victoria simply being too old to conceive a child. when John Brown was her servant.Anyway DNA evidence should be able to prove the truth of the claim.

It is sad isn't it that even today, there is still the assumption that if a man and woman are close friends the relationship must be sexual. Why could John Brown and the Queen not have a very close but platonic relationship.

The King, when Prince Charles, had a valet he was very close to, whome he protected even when proven to have been less than honest at times. No one has ever suggested that this intense personal relationship was homosexual, so why should Queen Victoria be subject to this attack from grubby minded individuals/

like the Silly Season comment.

But as there are hardly any decent newspapers left and their circulaltions are nose diving daily.

New digital media has to scrape the barrell even deeper for stories.

I personally could not give toss about this story.

Probably utter tripe

Bring back stories like Freddie Starr ate mt hamster fir a good old belly laugh

I've only traced my British family tree to the late 1600s.
I can proudly announce that I come from a long line of impoverished peasants, several incarcerated felons and at least one "lunatic."
Not a drop of blue blood in my veins so far.

My franchises Anastasia Romanov. She used to sing me Russian lullabies.

JackyB

My franchises Anastasia Romanov. She used to sing me Russian lullabies.

damn damn. I

My Granny!!! Not what that says

I watched the channel 4 programme last night and didn’t find it convincing beyond what is already known.
Point about language is weak. Those were printed cards, consider the fulsome wording in many birthday cards today.The word pleasure, of which so much is made, Iis often used to rhyme handily with treasure. And used in other ways such as It gives me great pleasure to introduce our speaker.
Nothing new to see here.

Complete twaddle. Channel 4 must improve.

Anniebach

Will she joined the secret daughter of Diana,

✔️

A poor programme significantly padded out to fill an hour and a half. A lot of unsubstantiated hypotheses and rather bizarre reasoning. Is Rinder that gullible ? The one sane voice was someone who suggested it was possible to have a deep friendship without a sexual element. Some theories were just laughable.

I think it's unlikely due to her age at the time she was supposed to have conceived, although I gather she did hide herself away from the public somewhat, much to their growing exasperation.

I read a book years ago, before the advent of DNA testing, about a woman, Anna Anderson who turned up in Germany in the 1920s claiming to be Anastasia. I think at the time I wanted to believe that because of the horrible fate of the Russian royal family, I thought it would be good, if at least one of them were to have escaped. Of course it was categorically proved years later when Prince Philip submitted his own DNA for analysis that Nicholas, Alexandra and all five of their children did not survive.

sassenach512

I joined a history site on FB It amuses me how many people, usually from the US, who jump straight in and claim heritage with the king or queen being discussed. One even claimed he was descended from William the Conqueror.
They never seem to be descended from Dick the grave digger or Ned the miller.

😂

I claim Jonathan, the sheep stealer!!

Unfortunately, he got just six months imprisonment, not transportation.

I watched the programme as well but I will only be convinced when the DNA results are in. Victoria had so many children that there must be at least one ancestor available to supply a sample. The cards and letters can be interpreted to give the outcome that the researcher wants but without DNA proof it is just an interesting story.

Ancestors are dead and gone, Parsley3. How can they provide DNA samples?

I have to correct MOnica, Victoria was born in 1819, she was 42 when Albert died. We have no idea when she went The putative date for this child is 1864/65 (according to the Daily Mail story) which would make her about 45 when it was conceived. We have no idea when she went through the menopause so 45 is a possibility. She was clearly very fertile, she had 9 children, the youngest being only 4 when Albert died. So. although fertility declines with age 45 isn't an impossible age for conception.

Personally I think it's a load of nonsense. She may have hidden herself away from the public during her extravagant mourning, but she would still have been surrounded with domestic staff, pages, household administrators, ladies in waiting and her still young family members. Not to mention contact with her government ministers. I think that had she been pregnant and given birth it would be impossible for it to stay secret for ever, something would have leaked out decades ago.

Maybe John Brown was her lover; she made no secret of her enjoyment of 'fun in bed', but a secret pregnancy? I don't think so.

Sorry, extraneous phrase, the first 'I'm not sure when she went' . I didn't completely delete the sentence..

Well the present family are descended from Queen Victoria so no shortage of descendants.
Incidentally Terribull I think it extremely likely that the sample used for Anastasia's side of the DNA testing was fake. When you think about it, the then Soviet government wanted to prove that none of the Romanovs survived. No chance that such a test would have been proposed if there was a chance of it being positive.

M0nica

John Brown became the Queen's servant in 1864 when the Queen, born in 1817 would have been 47.

I doubt any personal or physical relationship would have been instant so she would have been 50 or more when she had this mythical baby.

Remember this was in the late 1860s/70s. Even today when people, even royalty are healthier and the medical knowledge and care around giving birth has improved exponentially, conceiving a baby naturally over the age of 50 is almost unknown.

I think this rumour must fail under the heavy weight of Queen Victoria simply being too old to conceive a child. when John Brown was her servant.Anyway DNA evidence should be able to prove the truth of the claim.

It is sad isn't it that even today, there is still the assumption that if a man and woman are close friends the relationship must be sexual. Why could John Brown and the Queen not have a very close but platonic relationship.

The King, when Prince Charles, had a valet he was very close to, whome he protected even when proven to have been less than honest at times. No one has ever suggested that this intense personal relationship was homosexual, so why should Queen Victoria be subject to this attack from grubby minded individuals/

I agree, another American with delusions of grandeur and bad family history research skills, but thought I would mention that my sister got pregnant at 52 so a rare, but not inconceivable, occurence .

My Irish grandmother claimed she was descended from Brian Boru, a past king of Ireland. She probably was, along with most other Irish people. He was far from celibate.

Angela claims to be an ancestor, so she can't be the only one MaizieD.

Parsley3

Angela claims to be an ancestor, so she can't be the only one MaizieD.

No she can't, but is there any need to repeat the error?

Perhaps it needs explaining?

If Angela claims to be an ancestor of Queen Victoria, then she must be very very old indeed. A veritable miracle!
She claims to be a descendant I think.

In my part of Wales, the likenesses are widespread. I guess 1 in 3 of local people here are cousins distant or otherwise.

Monica wrote

"John Brown became the Queen's servant in 1864 when the Queen, born in 1817 would have been 47.

I doubt any personal or physical relationship would have been instant so she would have been 50 or more when she had this mythical baby. "

V and A acquired Balmoral in 1848, with JB as ghillie. By 1851, Brown's role changed from being gillie and personal friend to Prince Albert to a "permanent role" as the leader of the Queen's pony, "on Prince Albert's instigation".

IOW, Victoria and JB were on good terms for a decade before Albert died in 1861. There would have been physical contact (getting her on and off the pony) and time spent out of public view on the estate.

At least four widows of happy marriages I've known , have told me that A) in the midst of loss and grief they were mortified to find themselves randy and sexually aroused. One told me she spent much time under an icy shower. B) They also reported being approached for sex by opportunist male acquaintances including the husbands of their women friends. . Not long after the funeral.

So I could just believe a Victoria/ Brown fling in her early widowhood.

But not the secret baby. Even if she conceived, I'd be amazed the pregnancy came to term.. Abortion was a common enough recourse.

butterandjam Queen Victorian suffered from extreme traumatic grief after the sudden death of Prince Albert, I very much doubt that she would have had any kind of physical relationship in the early uyears after his loss.

In addition we must see all this in the context of the moral code of the period. Not that the code was never broken, it was, but to be caught, was to put one beyond the bounds of society. Victorian fiction is full of stories of women who transcended the moral code and suffered from it.

The monarchy was not secure in the UK until very late in QV's reign and had she behaved as suggested it could have toppled the monarchy, particularly as her son, the Prince of Wales' own behaviour was unpleasantly reminiscent of the behaviour of George IV and his brothers.

The furore surrounding Lady Flora Hastings when it was incorrectly believed that she was pregnant, would have been in her mind en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Flora_Hastings