Amsterdam attacks

I dont. I support the right to protest - I find aspects of the pro Palestine marches deeply worrying - but that's not the point.

As I said previously, it is not the 'reporting' I'm interested in, it is what I can see with my own eyes in the video.

And quite frankly, Anniebach I'm not in the least impressed by what the Telegraph has to say about the disturbances. They have as much their own bias as anyone else.

And this is heading our way, my way, your way. The labour government will do little to stop it. They first need to admit it is a realistic threat. I so worry about this county for the next 4 years.

The Guardian video (and article) I posted last night (2 mins) showed that events were not entirely one sided, although the article makes clear the evening and the attacks were widespread and anti semitic. At one point mass footie supporters chanted "ole. ole, f* the Arabs". Please do see for yourself.

www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/08/israel-sends-rescue-planes-football-fans-reportedly-attacked-amsterdam

I don't think a protest should have been allowed today, but in general, they are not going to stop until the situation in Gaza especially has changed.

I'm not sure exactly how our government is supposed to stop the protests?

As we have little influence on the war itself, which is what is causing the protests and inflaming divisions.

The Israeli fans when going down the escalators shouldn’t have been singing/ chanting but that presumably was after the match and there was huge provocation from a lot of pro Palestinian footie supporters of Ajax within the stadium with
their chanting.
None of that excuses the physical attacks on the Jewish fans, pre planned using vehicles and groups of people.

As for stopping pro Palestinian marches and gatherings today,
It could have been stopped by the police if the will was there.
Today, London should be about the Remembrance Parade.

Provocation doesn't excuse either event.

However, we are still left with the question, of what is provoking the protests, the war itself and its conduct, and it being suggested that the government should "do something about it".

What can our government do - its been suggested they "should" be doing something they aren't.

Its an international problem and even the US and other international players haven't the clout to bring ceasefires nor intervene for example in the decision to block aid to the north of Gaza, which has been a tipping point for many.

Oreo

The Israeli fans when going down the escalators shouldn’t have been singing/ chanting but that presumably was after the match and there was huge provocation from a lot of pro Palestinian footie supporters of Ajax within the stadium with
their chanting.
None of that excuses the physical attacks on the Jewish fans, pre planned using vehicles and groups of people.

As for stopping pro Palestinian marches and gatherings today,
It could have been stopped by the police if the will was there.
Today, London should be about the Remembrance Parade.

Stopped the farmers protesting, but not the palestinian mob, who seek to disrespect a national day of morning. If they are so concerned re Gaza, they could volunteer to help, you know help the Israelis transport sick and injured people to hospitals in other countries. Not shown by the mSm of course.
Two tier policing once more.

Outsiders are not allowed to do that, Freda.

However there is a lot of fundraising for peace based aid and medical agencies, that is, those permitted to enter Gaza, which is very few, and not in the north atm.

It's not 2 tier policing as such: remember Tommy Robinson and friends heading for the Cenotaph just last year at this time? Policing is about containment of demonstrations of any sort.

Earlier this year a Jew walked on a pavement in London close to a protest march , the Jew was stopped by a police officer who
claimed the man was Openly Jewish

This has been discussed many times Annie and the police officer was pulled up for the use of language.

The context was that the young man and friends after leaving their synagogue and already having crossed the march once, wanted to recross it where the march was very busy and police lined the march all the way.

The police were trying to be helpful by suggesting they wait a little and they could be escorted across but in trying to explain why, used that term.

The young man in fact achieved his aim of bringing the safety of Jewish people into focus and how language gets used.

MaizieD

As I said previously, it is not the 'reporting' I'm interested in, it is what I can see with my own eyes in the video.

And quite frankly, Anniebach I'm not in the least impressed by what the Telegraph has to say about the disturbances. They have as much their own bias as anyone else.

So you don’t find Jews being attacked in the vicinity of Anne Frank’s house disturbing. I certainly do. And I don’t care who is reporting it, what I care about is that it is happening.

On this day of remembrance, when we think of those who fought against fascism in WW2, my own father was one of them, shot through the neck and shoulder, nearly bled to death aged just 19, at least I know what he fought for. He volunteered, he wasn’t conscripted, so he knew too. And what he was fighting against was exactly what happened on the streets of Amsterdam last week.

Much here has been discussed many times, the man dared to leave a synagogue , shock horror , no it was antisemitism

Provocation doesn't excuse either event.

Thanks, Wyllow.

MaizieD

^Provocation doesn't excuse either event.^

Thanks, Wyllow.

I suppose our views on provocation vary widely.

Between those who would tell their child not to take any notice of provocation and those who would tell them to retaliate.

Anniebach

Much here has been discussed many times, the man dared to leave a synagogue , shock horror , no it was antisemitism

Yes it was anti-semitism, and the incident caused a furore at the very highest levels of government and police. The young man concerned is the Chief Executive or the Campaign against anti Semitism, articulate, and I believe really made a difference.

I hope the march today is entirely peaceful, as violence has no place, it merely echoes what they condemn.

I’m watching the Remembrance parade on BBC now. There are clearly no protesters anywhere nearby. The roads will have been closed and no doubt the protesters given instructions as to where they can actually march.
It does show disrespect though, they could have marched yesterday. Today appears to have been chosen specifically.

Nothing was done, the officer didn’t even apologise, just as well I suppose, it would have been hypocritical

It does show disrespect though, they could have marched yesterday.

As I recall, 'they marched yesterday' last year, but it still didn't satisfy the anti Palestinians...

And last year's trouble at the Cenotaph was caused by Tommy Robinson supporters. Palestinian protestors were nowhere near it and had never intended to be anywhere near it.

I know that Maizie.
Last year was only a month after 07/10/23 and I think feelings were running high in the whole population.
This year it’s a different matter. Over a year has gone by, and it would have been respectful to have marched yesterday, on Saturday, which is the day the marches usually take place.

Incidentally TR is in prison now, so somewhat irrelevant at the moment.

Surely the march been arranged for today is not provocative ,
And pigs do fly

Marches and rallies are intended by their nature to be provocative, bring issues to public attention, but I think the choice of today could re-bound in terms of intentions to gather support.

Wyllow3

Marches and rallies are intended by their nature to be provocative, bring issues to public attention, but I think the choice of today could re-bound in terms of intentions to gather support.

Marches and rallies are intended by their nature to be provocative

Including the Remembrance Day Parade?

I was in central London this weekend, and saw no sign of any trouble. I'm not even sure where the march took place?
Anyway it got me thinking that in Amsterdam, a city ten times smaller than London, maybe the attacks seemed all the more intense and concerning. I'm not belittling the events, they shouldn't happen anywhere, but maybe the scale had a bearing.
The 13 year old in the video seems to get around to locations very quickly in his video, something which would be impossible to achieve given the size of London.
Also, I wonder why the Dutch police weren't able to contain it better.

The 13year old must have adults with him?