Assisted dying

I don't want Esther Rantzen's views to be used to decide my quality of life.

As it was, my mum had a DNR on her file, which nobody had discussed with her, which the staff admitted to, eventually.

I am hoping the vote will be for assisted dying but I doubt enough MPs will vote for it. Fingers crossed.

I don't want anyone's views to be used to decide my quality of life MissA.

Yes, exactly that.
We need to remember our own views can change too, though.

Oh yes of course they can and we should be able to change them if we want too.

Hmm..
It's hard enough trying to find someone to take you to the toilet, or help you to eat, in hospital at times.

I'm not convinced a big multi disciplinary meeting would be arranged each time someone changed their mind.

keepingquiet Why do people assume everybody dies in great pain? As a former nurse for twenty years and lots of deaths I rarely came across this. A similar situation with my family members- good end of life care ensures this does not happen in people who are terminally ill

I'm not assuming that and volunteering in a hospice for years directly working with patients, I am well aware of what can be done in good palliative care. I am also well aware of the fact that a) palliative care does not necessarily create a quality of life that someone feels is worth living! b) appropriate palliative care is not always available or even considered in hospitals when "preserving life" is the driving force for medical personnel.

Hospices are working to widen their influence on good palliative care in hospitals; care homes; availability in the home which is good but more funding is needed! We have an ageing population with increasing frailty needs as people live longer!

And even with all that surely people with a life limiting illness and only 6 months to live are entitled to have a say in when the quality of that life is just not worth it. The assisted dying bill is about those people not a much wider range.

Being in pain is not the only reason why people may feel their quality of life isn't good any more.

Palliative care, whilst wonderful for some, is very, very far from that for others, too.

CocoPops

Medical assistance in dying (M.A.I.D) is lawful here in Canada. I had a close friend who opted for M.A.I.D. She had lived with a chronic illness since childhood which worsened over the years, requiring spells in hospital. She had lived a happy and independent life and always maintained she would never go into a residential home. At 82 years old her condition worsened and she landed up in hospital. Very frail but totally "with it" mentally. She had reached the stage where independent living wasn't possible and said, "CocoPops, I can't look after myself anymore more. I want M.A.I.D." (She had been considering M.A.I.D. for 3 months.) Once the arrangements were made, she was relaxed, seemed happy and
my good friend died at a time of her choosing with her family at the bedside.Of course I was devastated but grateful she had the choice.

That sounds to me like a good ending. It's what I think I would choose if I could. I sincerely hope that MPs vote to give us that choice.

That sounds like I saw a lady on YouTube choose for herself.

She was just totally sedated, and asleep, at home, and comfortable.
That would be my preference, I think.

theworriedwell

Jane43

Blinko

I’m in favour of choice at the end of life but also have concerns that some could be coerced. Safeguards would need to be put in place.

I read that in one country where there is choice - I think Canada was mentioned - where the means to end one’s life was made available, in the end up to 60% did not take that option.

I think the option should be there.

We have experience of this with relatives in Canada. My husband’s aunt was in her early nineties, she had always been active but in later years her mobility was limited, her eyesight was fading and she was having problems with her hearing. All the things she used to enjoy were taken away: walking, reading, puzzles, quizzes and dancing. She told us she prayed every night not to wake up the next morning. She applied for MAID and her application was granted, she was able to choose the time and place and who to have with her. She had time to say her goodbyes to her nearest and dearest and her two daughters were with her at the end. Soon after this my sister-in-law’s husband was diagnosed with MND, called ALS in Canada, he could have opted for MAID but chose not to, his suffering was very traumatic for my SIL and her husband’s family but it was his choice. I’m sure there will be safeguards in place and I hope the option will be there for everybody in this country who wants to end their suffering.

Wasn't there a scandal about a homeless disabled man in Canada being offered this as a solution to his homeless problem? I'm not convinced about the safeguards.

I don’t know about the case you refer to, I know systems vary from Province to Province. My husband’s aunt lived in British Columbia and she had to have her application granted by two doctors I believe.

Too often what was rare becomes far more commonplace. During the pandemic DNRs were slapped on elderly patients and care home residents like they were going out of fashion.
An in-law, not elderly, but with terminal cancer had one slapped on his records against his wishes and his wife's. They argued with the hospital who agreed to treatment but insisted the DNR was staying but they would place a note of the patient's and family objections. He fought through it all and survived another 2 years. He and his family treasured every moment. He was lucky that while in ICU a doctor ignored the DNR and resuscitated him.
My fear is that what starts out as an altruistic act can over time become something much darker. Of course the 'be kind' part of me wants people not to suffer, whether that be physical pain or mental anguish, but the slippery slope is always there.

Agree

Esther Rantzen just wants to 'go out' on her last hurrah and I am sick and tired of hearing about it.

Yes Rosie51
That’s a worry.

I made the choice for my OH's life to end. A doctor had seen him at the nursing home and said he needed blue-lighting to hospital for IV antibiotics etc. I asked them to reflect on what sort of miserable life they would be dragging him back to. He was in an appalling state of total physical dependence and living in terror due to his intractable paranoia.
No-one queried my decision, but none of the professionals suggested it themselves. Effectively he was helped to die as he was given drugs to relieve his distress and other drugs that were keeping him alive were withdrawn.
These sort of decisions are being made all the time and are effectively assisted dying.
I have to live with this decision .... thank goodness my DDs backed me up.

I remember your posts at that time. That was the kindest thing to do Luckygirl3 and brave of you to post here about your decision.

I see what you've described Luckygirl13 as compassionate end of life management. It has gone on forever. We instructed that we didn't want any interventions at the end for my husband's aunt, just to keep her comfortable. I don't believe in officiously striving to maintain life where there is no quality and no desire.

I think that kind of decision is used day in, and day out, as a matter of course, and has been for years.
It seems a,kind and compassionate way to do things, so I'm loathe to make it all "official" with documentation and forms signed, and possibly no room for manoeuvre.

Yes Yes - all very well saying pain relief - those who need it most are the very ones in poor and remote areas with no voice and no power. Nobody seems to sanction medics who permit pain...

i am in favour of assisted dying having watched people i love suffer a very painful death despite receiving excellent care. I know its something i would want a choice over if i ended in up a similar situation. If the person is mentally competent, let them choose. Other countries have successfully manged to have a system in place so why can't we

yes with Starmer's hatred of old people it wont be long before he singles out which of us has to take the tablet and die.

It is appalling that hospices rely so heavily on fund raising when they do the most incredible job. Our local hospice has to raise nearly £2 million every year in order to keep going. For the most part pain can be controlled which helps the families as well. I have seen several people die (I volunteer at a Hospice) and it has been peaceful, although I know that this is not always the case. Unfortunately this is not available to everyone although our hospice does run education programmes for nursing homes, GPs, hospital doctors and other health care professionals on dealing with end of life care, but it needs so much more money so that it is there for everyone who needs it.

I totally agree with assisted dying after sitting with my FIL recently with dementia in no shape or form would I wish to go through such pain and indignantly or be looked after “I say that word tentatively “
As for heavier palliative care, there are not enough nurses as it is unless the entire care system changes which isn't going to happen,other than the few wonderful nurses and carers people are going to suffer as for coercion what about FIL by MIL keeping him isolated from care and help because of the money she was going to lose by him being alive if the family hadn't managed to get help by getting LPA overridden his suffering would have continued for much longer

petra

keepingquiet

I'm sorry but 'booking' your own death sounds like the stuff of nightmares to me.

A nightmare is watching someone with motor neurone disease paralysed from the neck down.

Petra: . This happened to a friend of mine.