Is Islamophobia In Europe A Growing Concern?

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GrannyGravy13 - I’ll be surprised if you don’t fall in love with Ireland.

Katie590

Vintagewhine

I was expressing an opinion that there are many reasons for terrorism and challenging your simplistic view that terrorism can be overcome by "moderate" Muslims telling "extremists" to stop. Muslims are not one homogeneous group and the vast majority of Muslim people have no influence over terrorists.

Many young Muslims like Shamina Begum were radicalized in the Mosques in the UK the “moderates” must have known it was happening yet did nothing to stop it until hundreds of young British Muslims had travelled to Syria, many of whom died.
So I don’t accept that extremists are separate.

Many young Muslims like Shamina Begum were radicalized in the Mosques in the UK the “moderates” must have known it was happening yet did nothing to stop it until hundreds of young British Muslims had travelled to Syria, many of whom died.
So I don’t accept that extremists are separate.

A little research will indicate that Muslims have been alarmed by the behaviour of fellow Muslims - sometimes within their own family - and have reported it to the police.

It would appear that little to nothing happened afterward. Once such behaviour has been reported - what can a moderate Muslim do?

What does any religious group do when one of its adherents commits an atrocity? Do they line the streets with banners proclaiming "not in my name"? No, they don't.

On a personal note I was in very close proximity to one of the IRA London bombings.

Irrational I admit, I never wanted to go to Ireland (North or South) I went to Dublin six years ago (AC gifted me and DH a long weekend in a country house hotel) I will visit Belfast soon (hopefully) may be I am slaying my dragon ?

M0nica

maddyone

None of the other groups we are told about have been able to so radically alter our lives.
Going through security to get on a flight, not being allowed to take any liquids through. Why? Having to remove shoes before getting on a flight. Why? Massive steel bollards all over London protecting our government offices and important buildings. Why? Security searches to enter theatres, museums, courts, galleries, and many other public buildings. Why?
It’s not because of the Methodists is it?

maddyone, These were introduced to cope with IRA bombing and attacks, nothng to do with Islamic terrorism. They have been tightened since because of the general increase of extreme terorism of all kinds.

The fight against terrorism, ie banning liquids on planes, etc" was introduced in 2006, following a failed Al Qaeda plot to use chemicals to blow up multiple transatlantic flights from UK to US and Canada. The plot was foiled by the Met during extensive operations . Operation Overt.

I sort of get what Katie590 is getting at. There have been several so called hate preachers/Imams in U.K. Mosques.

If the wider congregation had reported them quickly cold they have been stopped or would they have become stronger due to their notoriety ?

The same could be said of any community leader/preacher of any faith.

My opinion (and it is just that) is that some of the most recent and biggest terror attacks have been perpetuated by radical islamists. These happened in the age of the internet and 24 hour rolling news, we saw with our own eyes the twin towers come down. The London tube and bus bombings were instantly on our TV and over social media. these images stay in our psyche.

Vintagewhine

I was expressing an opinion that there are many reasons for terrorism and challenging your simplistic view that terrorism can be overcome by "moderate" Muslims telling "extremists" to stop. Muslims are not one homogeneous group and the vast majority of Muslim people have no influence over terrorists.

Many young Muslims like Shamina Begum were radicalized in the Mosques in the UK the “moderates” must have known it was happening yet did nothing to stop it until hundreds of young British Muslims had travelled to Syria, many of whom died.
So I don’t accept that extremists are separate.

I was expressing an opinion that there are many reasons for terrorism and challenging your simplistic view that terrorism can be overcome by "moderate" Muslims telling "extremists" to stop. Muslims are not one homogeneous group and the vast majority of Muslim people have no influence over terrorists.

maddyone

Wrong Monica.

The allowance of 100 mls of liquid when flying was introduced after a threatened Islamic terror attack, which was going to be carried out on an aeroplane.

The introduction of taking off shoes when flying was introduced after a different threatened terror attack where an Islamic terrorist tried to carry a bomb on to a plane in the heel of his shoe.

The number of bollards we see in London have grown phenomenally since various attempted Islamic terror attacks have occurred, including some terror attacks that succeeded. For example, there are bollards all down Westminster Bridge now, along with bollards everywhere in the area of government.

The same applies to the bollards outside airports because some Islamic terrorists drove a big four wheel drive vehicle into Glasgow airport.

And another Islamic terrorist drove a car along one of the bridges in London, killing and injuring several people.

Theses precautions have everything to do with Islamic terrorism.

mmaddyone Perhaps I should have said These measures were first introduced to deal with Irish terrorism. Having started with the irish they have then, since then gradually been tightened to deal with terrorism from other sources, including Islamic terrorism.

I was an army brat and grew up on army bases in the 1950s and 60s when security around them was merely a 6 foot wire fence and where the army quarters where we lived was just a normal street turning with nothing beyond its name 'Ordnance Road' to link it to the military.

It was in the 1970s that all of a sudden security around army bases was majorly upgraded. Tall double fences, barbed wire and surveillance equipment were put in. The quarters complex now lies behind this double fence with entry via the guard post. many other security measures were introduced to protect security sites and protect policemen and forces members and their families

This was all done in response to irish terrorism. With the growth of terrorism of all kinds world wide, measures to respond to terrorism have grown because terrorism of all kinds has become more common.

You may only have noticed the ones that directly affect you when flying, but the measures to respond to terrorism started as a response to Irish terrorism and developed as terrorist tactics developed.

I now live just a few miles from one of my father's longest postings and drive past the end of the road we used to live in frequently. But in the nearly 30 years we have lived here, I have never been able to just turn up it and drive past where we used to live bcause of the double fence and other protective measures which have been there now for 50 years or more.

Vintagewhine

How on earth do you come to that conclusion? Please do explain.

Take Egypt the army had to take over because the Muslim Brotherhood a small group of Jihadists were intimidating the population, they are all Egyptians. It isn’t tribal it’s pure religious extremism and wanting an Iran style government.
In at least 10 African states there are groups with the same aim.

Yet you try to justify other reasons for conflict.

I think Katie590 has just proved Vintagewhine's point. Although Boko Haram was at one time affiliated with ISIS, the two groups are now opposed to each other with the leader of Boko Haram killing himself to avoid capture in by ISIS in 2021.

That was toKatie590 obviously.

How on earth do you come to that conclusion? Please do explain.

Katie590

Vintagewhine

Katie590

Violent Islam is a threat on a global scale it occurs in many countries, most of all in the Middle East and Africa, moderate Muslims must get control of the extremists.

How do they do that? Terrorism is the result of complex economic, tribal, political and societal problems and interactions. Islam, like Christianity has many different strands and interpretation of the Qur'an is often culturally specific. Terrorist groups are not representative of mainstream Sunni or Shia Muslims, they have their own agenda and leaders. I dislike your use of "moderate" and "extremists", it suggests that Muslims share a common aim and they don't.

So I guess you are in favour of terrorist groups like Islamic State who kill anyone who does not support them, or Boco Haram that kidnap girls and convert them to Islam

Nobody in their right mind would support this cruelty, obviously.

Iam64

I made my first visit to Egypt in January, wonderful trip exploring the country’s art and history.
I found the Egyptian people I met keen to discuss the Israel-Palestine conflict. Consistent references to the need for the Muslim Brotherhood not to be allowed a foot hold in Egypt.
Until this visit, I had not realised how many refugees the country is caring for.
growstuff’s point about the rejection of extremism was evident

I visited Egypt a few years ago, it was disconcerting to have armed guards on the coach we were travelling in. That aside Luxor was lovely, Cairo, the least said the better.

Katie590

Violent Islam is a threat on a global scale it occurs in many countries, most of all in the Middle East and Africa, moderate Muslims must get control of the extremists.

I think the only country that will eradicate the terrorists in Africa will be the Chinese.

Vintagewhine

Katie590

Violent Islam is a threat on a global scale it occurs in many countries, most of all in the Middle East and Africa, moderate Muslims must get control of the extremists.

How do they do that? Terrorism is the result of complex economic, tribal, political and societal problems and interactions. Islam, like Christianity has many different strands and interpretation of the Qur'an is often culturally specific. Terrorist groups are not representative of mainstream Sunni or Shia Muslims, they have their own agenda and leaders. I dislike your use of "moderate" and "extremists", it suggests that Muslims share a common aim and they don't.

So I guess you are in favour of terrorist groups like Islamic State who kill anyone who does not support them, or Boco Haram that kidnap girls and convert them to Islam

Katie590

Violent Islam is a threat on a global scale it occurs in many countries, most of all in the Middle East and Africa, moderate Muslims must get control of the extremists.

How do they do that? Terrorism is the result of complex economic, tribal, political and societal problems and interactions. Islam, like Christianity has many different strands and interpretation of the Qur'an is often culturally specific. Terrorist groups are not representative of mainstream Sunni or Shia Muslims, they have their own agenda and leaders. I dislike your use of "moderate" and "extremists", it suggests that Muslims share a common aim and they don't.

I made my first visit to Egypt in January, wonderful trip exploring the country’s art and history.
I found the Egyptian people I met keen to discuss the Israel-Palestine conflict. Consistent references to the need for the Muslim Brotherhood not to be allowed a foot hold in Egypt.
Until this visit, I had not realised how many refugees the country is caring for.
growstuff’s point about the rejection of extremism was evident

Violent Islam is a threat on a global scale it occurs in many countries, most of all in the Middle East and Africa, moderate Muslims must get control of the extremists.

nanna8

It’s more the extremism not the people per se that is alarming. Most couldn’t care less what religion people profess but they do care when that religion impacts on others. I doubt anyone here ‘hates’ Muslims but many would ‘hate’ the ideology of groups like Hamas and Isis. I can’t think of any other groups like those ones and they are not Buddhists, Hindus, Christians or Baha’i are they ?

I disagree with you. Islamophobia has been all too evident on this thread.

It might surprise you, but many Muslims also hate the ideology of Hamas and Isis. What has been all too clear is that some people lump all Muslims in the same group.

The title of this thread was "Is Islamophobia In Europe A Growing Concern?" I don't know if it's a growing concern, but it's certainly an existing concern if you happen to be Muslim and have experienced discrimination as a result of your religion and being associated with terrorists. There is a rise throughout Europe of anti-Muslim politics, which should ring warning bells.

It’s more the extremism not the people per se that is alarming. Most couldn’t care less what religion people profess but they do care when that religion impacts on others. I doubt anyone here ‘hates’ Muslims but many would ‘hate’ the ideology of groups like Hamas and Isis. I can’t think of any other groups like those ones and they are not Buddhists, Hindus, Christians or Baha’i are they ?

GrannyRose15

Rondoallaturc

GrannyRose15. Phobia means fear, straight and simple. Agoraphobia may to some be an irrational fear but is still “real”
ophidophobia, a fear of snakes..some may be perfectly harmless but the ordinary innocent non binary in the street can,t tell the difference. Phobia is fine until some highly respected wordsmith is asked to head a committee at an extortionate cost to the taxpayer to concoct a politically accepted word authorised by the far left

I always thought phobia meant fear. But its meaning is changing in popular parlance to mean irrational fear. That leaves us without a suitable word for rational fear. I understand the process that is happening. I just don’t know how to counter it.

It's a word and words don't always add up to the sum of their parts. Maybe you would prefer hatred of Muslims, which is what it is.

So what do you think should be done about it maddyone? You've apportioned the blame, so what next? Anybody can play blame games. Do you think all 1.9 billion Muslims in the world are responsible?

Wrong Monica.

The allowance of 100 mls of liquid when flying was introduced after a threatened Islamic terror attack, which was going to be carried out on an aeroplane.

The introduction of taking off shoes when flying was introduced after a different threatened terror attack where an Islamic terrorist tried to carry a bomb on to a plane in the heel of his shoe.

The number of bollards we see in London have grown phenomenally since various attempted Islamic terror attacks have occurred, including some terror attacks that succeeded. For example, there are bollards all down Westminster Bridge now, along with bollards everywhere in the area of government.

The same applies to the bollards outside airports because some Islamic terrorists drove a big four wheel drive vehicle into Glasgow airport.

And another Islamic terrorist drove a car along one of the bridges in London, killing and injuring several people.

Theses precautions have everything to do with Islamic terrorism.