Rotten pork

Video of scientific evidence here

www.badgertrust.org.uk/cull

M0nica

Norah I did not say that the vegan diet as a whole, was based on UPFs, but you have only to look at the range of manufactured Vegan foods, all the fake meats, fish, dairy products to know that if a vegan chose to base their diet on buying a lot of these products, then they would be eating an unhealthy diet. Those that exclude these produts will obviously not have a problem, but the range and quantity of these foods available, given the number of vegans, suggests that a lot of vegans are eating them.

When my DD was a child her closest friend was vegetarian. I would go to great lengths to prepare a nice vegetarian meal rich in vegetables and flavour, which wouldn't be eated by her. although DD loved it. I then discovered that when DD visited her the evening meals consisted of chips, cheese and chocolate Penguin biscuits and this was her friend's normal diet. I gave up and when she came I served chips cheese and chocolate biscuits.

I don't know about supposed vegan manufactured foods, never looked.

Apart from trying quorn and using it rarely - and the beef burger alternative which is very tasty but high in calories and fat - though lower than beef in cost and calories - I'm about vegetables. Nothing ever manufactured, but that was same when we ate meat.

I'd not paint vegans with the brush you're seeing where you shop.

But I'd never buy beef, for us, either. Too much downside, too bad for environment. I buy for our daughters and theirs, because they like beef. jambon, pork meat, fish and poultry. I draw my line at bacon.

Norah Do you not have any curiosity aboutpeople who live differently to you, I am consumed with an endless curiousty about everything, so i do look at the range of foods for people with different lives to mine. There is so much fake meat available - and shops wouldn't stock it, if there was not the demand.

As for beef, buy Pasture for Life beef and you are buying meat that is environmentally neutral and this method of farming can be carbon positive because the farming methods used can lead to cattle contributing to carbon sequestration.

People have the right to be vegan, vegetarian or to buy meat which is more environmentally sound.

They also have a right to think that any meat they buy from a recognised retail outlet will be safe to eat. They shouldn't have to pay a premium to know that their meat isn't rotten.

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corsetclique

It's true that no one has died in the United Kingdom because of this incident so far, but many have in the recent past, and not every case of food poisoning leading to death makes headlines. That occurred in this case because the maker was so careless for so long. word wipe

Not all cases of food poisoning lead to death either.

corsetclique

It's true that no one has died in the United Kingdom because of this incident so far, but many have in the recent past, and not every case of food poisoning leading to death makes headlines. That occurred in this case because the maker was so careless for so long. word wipe

I am reporting your spam posts

Monica mentioned “Pasture for Life” it’s not a brand I’ve been aware of so I checked up.

Its standards are very similar to Organic, but they don’t feed any grain or any harvested roots but they do allow grazing roots. A sheep system adapts easily to that because many are fattened outdoors on turnips in conventional systems.

Beef it’s more difficult almost all are yarded in winter, it just causes too much mess and soil damage to outwinter. Slower growing, native breeds would need to be used that get fat sooner on lower quality feeds - hay and silage.

If the customer is willing to pay a 25% premium then it should be a worthwhile system BUT why be different to Organic which is much more widely recognized, the standards are very similar, or are they a group that have “fallen out” with the Organic movement.

Personally the poor quality of Organic produce puts me off, a large quantity of which is imported and I know a lot of UK farmers have tried but failed to make a living out of organic.

Katie59 I am not sure what you have been reading, but there is a large and thriving organic sector in the UK, including organic meat. My first conversion to organic was when I bought some organic meat and realised what high quality it was. I have never bought organic meat that has not been locally reared

'Pasture for Life' is not a brand it is a distinct way of rearing cattle that is highly environmentally sensitive. Many people know of Knepp Farm in Sussex, a farm that has been 'rewilded', they are members of Pasture for Life.

As far as I know PfL is not a breakaway from the organic movement. In many ways they share values, but PforL is specifically aimed at being carbon neutral and even carbon positive by using natural grazing patterns that can lead to carbom sequestration. It also aims at returning cattle to their instinctive ways of grazing and moving around landscape.

Yes, of course, they use breeds that are adapted to this way of living, they would be daft not to to, any way of farming uses cattle and crops adapted to its purpose.

Pasture for Life is clearly a brand all producers adopt common standards a use the logo.
Organic is very similar and I asked the question why be separate. I know a lot of farmers have given up organic it works if you are rich, King Charles, Chatsworth or Daylesford, if you have to pay a commercial rent or have a mortgage you won’t pay the bills.

The organic offering in Waitrose is pretty poor why anyone would pay double for poorer quality beats me, because of that there is a lot of wastage too

Looking at a few PfL sellers, mostly farm shops, they claim to be more “natural” than organic, who can feed up to 40% of the diet grain.

M0nica

Norah Do you not have any curiosity aboutpeople who live differently to you, I am consumed with an endless curiousty about everything, so i do look at the range of foods for people with different lives to mine. There is so much fake meat available - and shops wouldn't stock it, if there was not the demand.

As for beef, buy Pasture for Life beef and you are buying meat that is environmentally neutral and this method of farming can be carbon positive because the farming methods used can lead to cattle contributing to carbon sequestration.

No curiosity at all about the store shops of other people, not my business. The meat alternatives I have seen and tried a few times are typically lower in fat, higher in protein than meat, I do assume there is demand.

We find vegan healthier and better. Others prefer meat.

During a sustainable farm lecture series we heard about PfL beef. Interesting concept, nice idea I'd think. Not even near carbon neutral. I believe I heard that part of the rather large annual GHG emission from grazing cows can perhaps be lowered by this system of feeding on pastures/clover added.

I'm sure there are all sorts of discussions to be had about more sustainable farming methods and the way animals are kept. However, consumers have to pay a premium or cut down on meat consumption and I don't think cost should be the main reason people cut down on/give up meat. For many people, paying more for meat isn't an option. The argument about meat consumption shouldn't detract from the different issue of all meat products (even the very cheapest ones) being safe to eat.

The Vegetarian Society claim 4.5% of the population are veggies with maybe 1% vegan, that fine by me it’s their choice.
So it’s clear that 95% of the population prefer a mixed diet.

What I dislike is being told how bad I am for eating meat, that they are superior because they don’t, or is it just virtue signaling.

Katie59

The Vegetarian Society claim 4.5% of the population are veggies with maybe 1% vegan, that fine by me it’s their choice.
So it’s clear that 95% of the population prefer a mixed diet.

What I dislike is being told how bad I am for eating meat, that they are superior because they don’t, or is it just virtue signaling.

We're vegan. I don't find being vegan virtuous, or superior. However, it is far cheaper and I dislike meat.

Nor do I find meat eating 'bad' other than for my health.

Opinions vary.

Katie59

Pasture for Life is clearly a brand all producers adopt common standards a use the logo.
Organic is very similar and I asked the question why be separate. I know a lot of farmers have given up organic it works if you are rich, King Charles, Chatsworth or Daylesford, if you have to pay a commercial rent or have a mortgage you won’t pay the bills.

The organic offering in Waitrose is pretty poor why anyone would pay double for poorer quality beats me, because of that there is a lot of wastage too

I buy my organic grass fed free range meat direct from the farmer.

You will never taste better meat, which cooks superbly. As long as I am able I will never buy any other meat.

We eat all types of meat but only every three days in order to mitigate the expense. The next day is fish of all varieties and the next is vegetarian and occasionally vegan if the recipe looks good.

Eating therefore a very wide variety of all foods.

Oh and zero wastage - not sure why you say that there is a lot of wastage.

This weekend we are eating leg of lamb - sufficient for 10 people. Absolutely nothing will be wasted.. In fact front bell has just rung and meat for the next month has arrived.

I buy standard chicken and pork for everyday use when I want lamb or beef it’s the farm shop and choose the joint I like, quality meat is not going to be cheap.
Pasture fed is a good concept, although there are not enough differences from conventionally reared cattle to be widely adopted.

Norah

Katie59

The Vegetarian Society claim 4.5% of the population are veggies with maybe 1% vegan, that fine by me it’s their choice.
So it’s clear that 95% of the population prefer a mixed diet.

What I dislike is being told how bad I am for eating meat, that they are superior because they don’t, or is it just virtue signaling.

We're vegan. I don't find being vegan virtuous, or superior. However, it is far cheaper and I dislike meat.

Nor do I find meat eating 'bad' other than for my health.

Opinions vary.

I guess it depends on your health. Eating carbs (not just obvious sugars) is bad for my health. All vegetables and fruits are made up of carbs and I rarely eat anything made with flour or grains, so it's difficult to achieve a healthy low carb vegan diet. Meat has no carbs.

Whitewavemark2

Katie59

Pasture for Life is clearly a brand all producers adopt common standards a use the logo.
Organic is very similar and I asked the question why be separate. I know a lot of farmers have given up organic it works if you are rich, King Charles, Chatsworth or Daylesford, if you have to pay a commercial rent or have a mortgage you won’t pay the bills.

The organic offering in Waitrose is pretty poor why anyone would pay double for poorer quality beats me, because of that there is a lot of wastage too

I buy my organic grass fed free range meat direct from the farmer.

You will never taste better meat, which cooks superbly. As long as I am able I will never buy any other meat.

We eat all types of meat but only every three days in order to mitigate the expense. The next day is fish of all varieties and the next is vegetarian and occasionally vegan if the recipe looks good.

Eating therefore a very wide variety of all foods.

Fine! I can't afford premium meat and want to know that my supermarket meat isn't going to poison me. Buying from farm shops isn't a solution for most people.

If ‘standard’ chicken and pork are, as I think likely, factory farmed, I would rather not eat them. I only buy free range (even for my dog). Meat isn’t essential to a healthy human diet.

Germanshepherdsmum

If ‘standard’ chicken and pork are, as I think likely, factory farmed, I would rather not eat them. I only buy free range (even for my dog). Meat isn’t essential to a healthy human diet.

So what low carb unprocessed food would you suggest as an alternative for adequate protein and calories?

I’m sure you can look that up growstuff. A vegetarian or vegan cookbook will tell you all you need to know. That, and fish, is what I would resort to were I unable to afford free range meat and eggs. I’m not here to fuel the demand for the products of factory farming.

No, it won't! I've spent ages researching it. It's extremely difficult to eat a low carb vegan diet. No book or website can come up with any answers.

What a strange comment about fuelling the demand for factory farming! Nobody's suggesting you are.

PS. Have you actually looked at the price of fish recently?