Rotten pork

Lost plot! How does asking about badgers make anybody anti-British?

(Think I've probably stumbled into some kind of alternative universe, where 'non sequiturs' are mandatory.)

Germanshepherdsmum

You’re showing your pro EU/anti Brit side fp - shades of the past.

Weird

Fleurpepper

What did badgers have to do with CJD???

Fact is CJD was not imported into UK, but was a result of decisions made in the UK.

Correct, CJD was a result of a change in regulations that affected cattle
When laws were changed and Badgers were protected there was an increase in numbers resulting in a massive TB epidemic also affecting cattle.
Both were unexpected and cost the taxpayer many millions.

Thread drift the connection was disease and food.

I think that you will find that TB spread in cattle is far more related to the movement of cattle than infection from badgers.

CJD was a result of lowering fo standards for feeds, feeding animals to animals, including spinal chord- if I remember rightly.

So badgers are related to TB. Or rather TB in cattle have been infecting badgers, who then got the blame. They also got the blame for the movement/sales of cattle from infected areas to non-infected areas. The badger cull is a massive smokescreen.
I'm afraid it is a subject I have been studying very seriously for over 40 years.

How that makes me pro EU and anti Brit is... is more than weird.

In 2000, a government inquiry concluded that the prion was spread through cattle that were fed meat-and-bone mix containing traces of infected brains or spinal cords. The prion then ended up in processed meat products, such as beef burgers, and entered the human food chain.

“So badgers are related to TB. Or rather TB in cattle have been infecting badgers, who then got the blame. They also got the blame for the movement/sales of cattle from infected areas to non-infected areas. The badger cull is a massive smokescreen.”

The facts are that TB in cattle was a big public health issue before WW2 TB was common and many deaths resulted.
TB eradication in cattle was begun and was very successful, by the 1980s very few cattle were found to be infected, in fact in some areas it was unknown.

It was always known that badgers spread TB amongst cattle so numbers were controlled just like any other pest and it was very unusual to see a badger. When the Government protected badgers they did not expect an explosion of TB, they thought the disease had been conquered, but setts became overcrowded and TB again began to spread. That mistake has cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of cattle and large losses are still occurring, not to mention the cost to the taxpayer.

There is a perfectly adequate vaccination for cattle.

The culling of badgers is unnecessary and cruel.

This is not the place Katie 59- but I am afraid this is not how it works. The badger is just a scape goat. Cattle passports and checks before moving them from one part of the country to another whenever an outbreak suspected is the way forwards. And vaccination. And very simple prevention measures, like covering feeding trough at night. And more.

Fleurpepper

This is not the place Katie 59- but I am afraid this is not how it works. The badger is just a scape goat. Cattle passports and checks before moving them from one part of the country to another whenever an outbreak suspected is the way forwards. And vaccination. And very simple prevention measures, like covering feeding trough at night. And more.

Covering feed troughs at night, don’t be ridiculous cattle graze pasture and it’s impossible to keep badgers out of farmyards and buildings, however strict you are.
Cattle DO have passports and DO have to be tested before they are moved to a different farm but if infected badgers are on that farm it makes no difference

As said, not the place. Very complicated. Testing and passporting hav3 massive delays, and it is well known that cattle movements are not properly restricted.

What about the vaccination point, Katie59? Have you an objection to that, too?

Vaccination, many farmers see vaccination as a way forward, the Government has said not yet, one reason is that no export of livestock would then be possible, another is that vaccinated animals test positive for the TB test used.

There are trials being done, with a target date of 2025, we all hope they are successful, like all vaccines a high rate of immunity will be needed

Fleurpepper

As said, not the place. Very complicated. Testing and passporting hav3 massive delays, and it is well known that cattle movements are not properly restricted.

You made it the place, and I can assure you that cattle movements are strictly controlled a missing ear tag has to be accounted for, which is why all animals have 2 tags. Animals unable to be identified cannot be moved.

bought a box of odds and ends from Argentina and minced it

And this, dear reader is why I don't eat meat.

When CjD came to light, my elderly aunt who had spent many happy times on her grandparents' farm, said 'well, that's what you get when you feed cattle to cattle'. You don't need to be a scientist to recognise that there is potential risk when you feed protein to herbivores.

There is no reason to avoid eating meat. I moved to organic meat the moment I heard R4 Food programme talking about BSEit.

It is perfectly safe to eat meat if you stick to organic or Pasture for Life cattle.

It is more expensive but one just eats smaller portions or less frequently. We also eat cheaper cuts, as they are tastier and more versatile.

There is every reason not to eat meat if you don’t like the idea of an animal being slaughtered so that you can eat it.

Well yes Monica. Our eldest became vegetarian at the age of 14- but her husband finally tempted her back to eating meat when she was about 30. They only eat the best meat from the best local butcher, from the best local farms, with their kids.

But it is VERY expensive- and I do mean VERY. They have excellent jobs and can afford it- but it is just not possible for most, especially currently with such huge inflation.

And as GSM says ...

Germanshepherdsmum

There is every reason not to eat meat if you don’t like the idea of an animal being slaughtered so that you can eat it.

Of course there are many reasons not to eat meat.

Animal slaughter.

Animals kept in horrible conditions, mad cow disease, cow methane gas impacting the planet, nitrous oxide emissions, deforestation, soil over cultivating to grow animal food. Bird flu, swine flu.

The cost of meat as compared to vegetable diet.

"The meat industry clears millions of acres of forested land to make room to graze cattle and grow crops for animal feed. This process, known as deforestation, releases stored carbon from forests into the atmosphere, exacerbating our climate crisis even further."

There is every reason not to eat meat if you

Care about your health, your weight, your risk of heart disease by lowering cholesterol levels and blood pressure.

Or if you care about your chances of getting certain types of cancer (colon cancer), or lowering high A1C levels.

Also less costly. Vegetable based meals are tasty.

Animal welfare is not primary, but important, imo.

All contestable claims Norah, except the last but one.

It depends what type of meat you eat and how much you eat. For me animal welfare is primary.

price isn't everything. A vegan diet based on Ultra Processed Foods would be very unhealthy.

Humans have evolved to be omnivores. This means wherever we have spread on earth we can survive on whatever food is available, from the predominantly meat based diet of those in the extreme far north to htose who have a more vegetable dominated diet.

No decision on food choices is inherently good or bad. Any food consumption pattern can be good or bad for humans depending on how they interprete it and how their own body has developed. Many of us have food allergies and intolerances that will shape our diet.

Norah, you may have chosen to be vegan, that is your choice and no one has any right to criticise that choice, but your choice is not inherently more virtuous, nor any better than anyone else's choice

M0nica

All contestable claims Norah, except the last but one.

It depends what type of meat you eat and how much you eat. For me animal welfare is primary.

price isn't everything. A vegan diet based on Ultra Processed Foods would be very unhealthy.

Humans have evolved to be omnivores. This means wherever we have spread on earth we can survive on whatever food is available, from the predominantly meat based diet of those in the extreme far north to htose who have a more vegetable dominated diet.

No decision on food choices is inherently good or bad. Any food consumption pattern can be good or bad for humans depending on how they interprete it and how their own body has developed. Many of us have food allergies and intolerances that will shape our diet.

Norah, you may have chosen to be vegan, that is your choice and no one has any right to criticise that choice, but your choice is not inherently more virtuous, nor any better than anyone else's choice

I'm sure all claims on either side - vegan or eating animal products are contestable.

Neither side is virtuous. Virtue has nothing to do with food choices.

I'm not sure why anyone would think vegan food is UPF - primarily beans, pulses, lentils, cooked at home. I can't even find decent tempeh or falafel and have to make ours.

And yes, meat is more costly than vegan food. I know, I cook meat and it's by products all the time, for our daughters and theirs.

Norah I did not say that the vegan diet as a whole, was based on UPFs, but you have only to look at the range of manufactured Vegan foods, all the fake meats, fish, dairy products to know that if a vegan chose to base their diet on buying a lot of these products, then they would be eating an unhealthy diet. Those that exclude these produts will obviously not have a problem, but the range and quantity of these foods available, given the number of vegans, suggests that a lot of vegans are eating them.

When my DD was a child her closest friend was vegetarian. I would go to great lengths to prepare a nice vegetarian meal rich in vegetables and flavour, which wouldn't be eated by her. although DD loved it. I then discovered that when DD visited her the evening meals consisted of chips, cheese and chocolate Penguin biscuits and this was her friend's normal diet. I gave up and when she came I served chips cheese and chocolate biscuits.

Badgers are not the problem

Bovine TB is always present in the environment and can affect or be carried harmlessly by many species – livestock and wildlife alike. Yet the government has focused on badgers, even though 94% of cattle infections are from cow to cow. Many in the farming community wrongly believe that badgers are a significant vector in the spread of the disease. For many years, independent scientists, vets, researchers, as well as Badger Trust, have rightly challenged this claim.

​

The science behind the driving cause of the epidemic that is bTB in cattle includes a recent study on this badger vs cow debate, published in Vet Record in March 2022. The robust, and comprehensive analyses of DEFRA’s own data conducted by independent scientists, show clearly that there is no evidence that badger culling has had any impact on reducing bTB in cattle. By comparing cull and non-cull areas the study showed that any reduction in bTB in cattle was likely a result of cattle measures. Further analysis of ten county areas considered high-risk areas for bTB shows that in 9 out of 10 of these counties, bTB in cattle peaked and then began to fall before the government ever implemented a badger cull.

Is Badger Culling effective against bTB? This video explains the effectiveness of the badger cull.

Lots of badgers where I live, and cows on pastures nearby.

No TB in cows = no TB in badgers.