Gary Lineker's tweet

Urmstongran

I bet the skippers of the small boats do not dare reveal details of the gang master people traffickers MaizieD. They will be earning very good money as long as they comply but I bet their families will be at risk if any information is revealed to authorities.

Certainly Urms. A massive European approach is needed which can allow - among many other things - informants to be protected and action/raids swiftly taken.

We dont have that in any way atm.

Urmstongran

I bet the skippers of the small boats do not dare reveal details of the gang master people traffickers MaizieD. They will be earning very good money as long as they comply but I bet their families will be at risk if any information is revealed to authorities.

I'm sure that our police and security forces can do better than just shrug their shoulders and say that 'they won't tell us who is running them'.

Take away the need for the smugglers services and you get rid of the smugglers.

I think he was right about the awful Tory Bill - their language is inflammatory. It's simply a bone to the anti- immigration voters and an attempt to strengthen the Tory vote at local elections and the next GE. Of course, Lineker's principled comments are being used as an excuse for Tories to frighten the BBC into being quiet during elections. You can see the underlying Tory strategy - play the immigration card, moan about sex education in schools, attack civil servants and frighten the BBC. Accuse Starmer of being a Lefty lawyer.

Take away the need for the smugglers services and you get rid of the smugglers.

Absolutely WW2! If it were possible for people to apply for asylum before landing on UK soil, and for that application to be processed in a timely manner, there would be no small boats / people smugglers / gangs etc. Simple!

LizzieDrip

^Take away the need for the smugglers services and you get rid of the smugglers.^

Absolutely WW2! If it were possible for people to apply for asylum before landing on UK soil, and for that application to be processed in a timely manner, there would be no small boats / people smugglers / gangs etc. Simple!

Absolutely.

So you’ve got to wonder what the government’s real agenda is haven’t you.

Whitewavemark2

Take away the need for the smugglers services and you get rid of the smugglers.

Well yes, but that needs action.
And funding.

The problems grow because of lack of action and funding over years.

Whitewavemark2

LizzieDrip

Take away the need for the smugglers services and you get rid of the smugglers.

Absolutely WW2! If it were possible for people to apply for asylum before landing on UK soil, and for that application to be processed in a timely manner, there would be no small boats / people smugglers / gangs etc. Simple!

Absolutely.

So you’ve got to wonder what the government’s real agenda is haven’t you.

I am interested to see what the Labour Government will do if they get into Government as predicted.

Open Borders has has been mentioned, I couldn’t support that policy.

MaizieD

Urmstongran

I bet the skippers of the small boats do not dare reveal details of the gang master people traffickers MaizieD. They will be earning very good money as long as they comply but I bet their families will be at risk if any information is revealed to authorities.

I'm sure that our police and security forces can do better than just shrug their shoulders and say that 'they won't tell us who is running them'.

Really? What then, beat them up to confess?
If they won’t talk then they won’t.

GrannyGravy that’s a worry for a lot of people tbh about Keir Starmer.
I can’t really see Labour managing this situation any better.

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

I think everyone including GL has the right to say what they think about this Government or

Likening a Government to a 1930’s regime which caused millions of death and untold harm is his tweet helpful or responsible?

The point that Professor Bueltmann is making (and so am as are others) is that fascism doesn't start with internment camps - it starts with populist rhetoric, and escalates.

Imo that is exactly what has happened with the migrant issue.

We know that there are actions that the government has failed to follow, preferring instead to up the anti. Until we have now got to the stage of internment camps and messages like “billions” and “hoards” and “rich immigrants”.

Look at what was said in the early days of the fascist regime in Germany. The rhetoric is exactly the same. The messages of hate lead to hateful actions.

Exactly Whitewave. Those who have commented on the government rhetoric have compared it to the outpourings in speeches and propoganda in the newspapers in the 1930s.

Those who are attempting to support the government in this area are the ones who refer to the outcomes in one country and take it further and use it to accuse - as Sunak did, others of not being "on the side of the British People". Flag waving and shouting the odds is not patriotism. It's simply a technique - used by extremists on all sides - to enhance the standing of an idea, a group or a country. Sunak and his sidekicks are attempting to increase support for one group; their group. We have seen the lies they use and we have 13 years of evidence that they don't give a jot for "the people".

There were supporters of such thinking in our country, the US, and others during the 1930s. Indeed, some never changed their minds about this being the way to go.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

LizzieDrip

Take away the need for the smugglers services and you get rid of the smugglers.

Absolutely WW2! If it were possible for people to apply for asylum before landing on UK soil, and for that application to be processed in a timely manner, there would be no small boats / people smugglers / gangs etc. Simple!

Absolutely.

So you’ve got to wonder what the government’s real agenda is haven’t you.

I am interested to see what the Labour Government will do if they get into Government as predicted.

Open Borders has has been mentioned, I couldn’t support that policy.

Who mentioned this, GrannyGravy?

DaisyAnne

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

LizzieDrip

Take away the need for the smugglers services and you get rid of the smugglers.

Absolutely WW2! If it were possible for people to apply for asylum before landing on UK soil, and for that application to be processed in a timely manner, there would be no small boats / people smugglers / gangs etc. Simple!

Absolutely.

So you’ve got to wonder what the government’s real agenda is haven’t you.

I am interested to see what the Labour Government will do if they get into Government as predicted.

Open Borders has has been mentioned, I couldn’t support that policy.

Who mentioned this, GrannyGravy?

Many on the far left of the Labour Party are in favour of open borders, as has been reported in the media (google is your friend)

Kier Starmer has shuffled on the immigration issue, including a points based system.

Will he have to placate the far left of his party and their supporters in the same way that Conservative leaders allegedly appear to placate the ERG.

GrannyGravy13

More thinking

GL is followed by thousands if not millions of football followers who may or may not be politically savvy

He could be influencing their votes come election day, not sure that following a football pundits views is how I wish U.K. elections to be won/lost.

Isn't that what happened during the run up to the Brexit referendum? Many people who weren't politically savvy sounding off.

Dinahmo

GrannyGravy13

More thinking

GL is followed by thousands if not millions of football followers who may or may not be politically savvy

He could be influencing their votes come election day, not sure that following a football pundits views is how I wish U.K. elections to be won/lost.

Isn't that what happened during the run up to the Brexit referendum? Many people who weren't politically savvy sounding off.

Yes, and it doesn’t appear that a lesson has been learnt.

The immigration debate is yet another example of divide and rule by the Tories. The Tory govt has presided over a period of austerity since they came into power 13 years ago and because they want to remain in power they need to appeal to those people who will support them.

There are some people who are reasonably knowledgeable and can see through the rhetoric (an invasion; invaders; billions of people) and there are some people who for a variety of reasons cannot. The latter maybe don't have the education, believe the Mail and Express etc, don't have the time and possibly the most important, are worried more about the cost of living and wondering how they are going to manage, rather than anything else.

Interestingly some commentators are saying the the division appears to be along the same lines as Brexit.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

LizzieDrip

Take away the need for the smugglers services and you get rid of the smugglers.

Absolutely WW2! If it were possible for people to apply for asylum before landing on UK soil, and for that application to be processed in a timely manner, there would be no small boats / people smugglers / gangs etc. Simple!

Absolutely.

So you’ve got to wonder what the government’s real agenda is haven’t you.

I am interested to see what the Labour Government will do if they get into Government as predicted.

Open Borders has has been mentioned, I couldn’t support that policy.

'Open Borders' is a lie being promulgated by the tory party, GG13. I am really surprised that you, of all people, has fallen for, and is repeating it.

Interestingly some commentators are saying the the division appears to be along the same lines as Brexit.

I'm not at all surprised by that, Dinahmo. This whole sorry saga, with Braverman in the Sun promising its readers that millions of people are falling over themselves to come to the UK, compounded by her upping the number to billions the next day in an interview, and Sunak repeating the same numbers at PMQs yesterday, is strongly reminiscent of the Leave campaign.

You know, with Farage standing in front of that poster (which had nothing to do with the UK or the EU) implying that all those brown people wanted to swamp the UK, and the dark ads about Turkey just about to join the EU, implying a swamping of Turkish origin, plus the ones with arrows pointing from inaccurately placed middle eastern countries, also implying that their citizens were all about to rush over to the UK...

They were very effective, so why not try the same thing again?

Am I right in thinking that Lineker did not use the word Nazi but just referred to pre war Germany ie The Weimar Republic? It’s the news media that have used the word Nazi.

MayBee70

Am I right in thinking that Lineker did not use the word Nazi but just referred to pre war Germany ie The Weimar Republic? It’s the news media that have used the word Nazi.

He didn't use the word Nazi, that was an invention on the part of his naysayers. He just referred to language used in Germany in the 1930s

Someone yesterday said that the Weimar Republic was in the 1920s, before the rise of Hitler.

(I could check that)

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

MaizieD

MayBee70

Am I right in thinking that Lineker did not use the word Nazi but just referred to pre war Germany ie The Weimar Republic? It’s the news media that have used the word Nazi.

He didn't use the word Nazi, that was an invention on the part of his naysayers. He just referred to language used in Germany in the 1930s

Someone yesterday said that the Weimar Republic was in the 1920s, before the rise of Hitler.

(I could check that)

Yes. It ended in 1933. Not sure if during that time the seeds were sown for what was to happen later. D D used to teach that period of history…l’ll ask her.

A little bit of history

The Weimar Republic existed between 1918 and 1933. Its official name was the German Reich.

Hitler became leader of the Nazi Party in 1921. (Formerly known as the German Workers' Party) He lead a failed coup - jailed and early release in 1924. He gained popular support by attacking the Treaty of Versailles, anti semitism and anti communism etc etc. By 1932 the Nazi party held the most seats in the Reichstag but did not have a majority. In January 1933 von Hindenburg was persuaded to appoint Hitler as Chancellor. The rest is history.

DD says it was the failure of the Weimar Republic that was very forward thinking that paved the way for Hitler. Without looking it up I think it was the economic measures that we put in Germany because if WWI that resulted in its failure.

MaizieD I know you dislike being disagreed with however, I ^ googled and read various articles and numerous were quoting members of the Labour Party who are in favour of open borders.