Gary Lineker's tweet

GrannyGravy13

I think everyone including GL has the right to say what they think about this Government or

Likening a Government to a 1930’s regime which caused millions of death and untold harm is his tweet helpful or responsible?

The point that Professor Bueltmann is making (and so am as are others) is that fascism doesn't start with internment camps - it starts with populist rhetoric, and escalates.

Imo that is exactly what has happened with the migrant issue.

We know that there are actions that the government has failed to follow, preferring instead to up the anti. Until we have now got to the stage of internment camps and messages like “billions” and “hoards” and “rich immigrants”.

Look at what was said in the early days of the fascist regime in Germany. The rhetoric is exactly the same. The messages of hate lead to hateful actions.

So there are two quite separate issues here.

1. Has a BBC employee the right to say what they think.

2. Is the governments immigrant policy inhumane and illegal?

Perhaps we need two separate threads?

Not all posters are as you so eloquently posted are slagging off Gary Lineker

The majority are discussing whether or not he has broken the BBC’s impartiality clause by tweeting as he did along with him taking the Qatari $ (yes I know many others did take the Qatari $ and I am not impressed with them either)

As an aside I heard this morning on the news that Suella Braverman’s husband is Jewish.

It is undeniable that something has to be done regarding the migrant crisis both here in the U.K. and worldwide, using a word like invasion during the presentation of the Bill was not helpful and has fuelled some of the opposition to trot out the facist and nazi tropes.

Whitewavemark2

So there are two quite separate issues here.

1. Has a BBC employee the right to say what they think.

2. Is the governments immigrant policy inhumane and illegal?

Perhaps we need two separate threads?

I think that this thread is fine, but yes, perhaps another one solely about the Immigration Policy.

I thought that the thread was about Topic A all along tbh

Populist rhetoric is a very simple but effective tool. The fascist started off as a populist group
The populist /fascist recognised the necessity to sell their message to the masses, who they argued were intellectually feeble and forget very quickly, so the message need to be simple and hard hitting There is always a recognisable “truth” which people can nod along to but then the populist adds in lies and propaganda, and this is where bravermans rhetoric echoes the rhetoric so prevalent in Germany in the late 20s early 30s.

So I paraphrase

“There is a real and growing issue with immigrants in our country, and because past policies have failed ( the bill to the last policy only went through this week!) we need to get much tougher. Rich migrants who can pay thousands to the people smugglers are queuing up in their billions to enter the U.K. The only way to deal with this threat of hoards is to intern them indefinitely in camps as they pose such a threat to our way of life”

That is the message from Braverman. Of course we can see the lies and propaganda contained in this, but she knows that many can’t and will be convinced by her message.

Have I got this right. Suella Braverman*who imo does want to take us out of the ECHR is married to a Jewish man. And the ECHR was set up as a result of countries turning away Jews that were trying to flee Germany in the Weimar Republic because they feared for their safety.
*whose family came here to escape persecution I believe
I just don’t understand the mentality of people who, once they are safe themselves, devote themselves to taking any hope away from other people.

GG so Braverman is the daughter of Ugandan immigrants and her husband is Jewish.
I honestly don’t know what to say.

I heard on James OBrien yesterday that when Braverman was in another post in the Home Office she actually criticised Home Secretary Pritti Patel for being too over the top.

I think that this lot have zero principles and it’s 100% self interest.

FannyCornforth

Whitewavemark2

So there are two quite separate issues here.

1. Has a BBC employee the right to say what they think.

2. Is the governments immigrant policy inhumane and illegal?

Perhaps we need two separate threads?

I think that this thread is fine, but yes, perhaps another one solely about the Immigration Policy.

I thought that the thread was about Topic A all along tbh

We already have a thread about immigration policy. It's about the Illegal Immigration Bill. It's not far from this one.

I love the way everyone is skirting round the 'message' ...

I find some irony in some posts on here; we were debating what constituted virtue signalling on another thread recently.

How many on this thread have taken a refugee(s) into their homes to live? as Gary Lineker has
🤔

Fine words butter no parsnips

Oh okay, thanks Maizie, I hadn’t seen it.
Sorry, I don’t understand what you mean about ‘skirting around the message’

I would definitely take in a family, unfortunately I don’t have the space for even me and MrC.
If I was on £1.35 million I’d take in several families!

GG so Braverman is the daughter of Ugandan immigrants and her husband is Jewish.
I honestly don’t know what to say.

We've offered sanctuary to dispossessed people for centuries but in a controlled way; at the moment there seems to be lack of control and the government needs to up their game and find better ways to process the increasing numbers arriving, offer sanctuary to those who are genuine refugees and return those who are not.

Callistemon21

I find some irony in some posts on here; we were debating what constituted virtue signalling on another thread recently.

How many on this thread have taken a refugee(s) into their homes to live? as Gary Lineker has
🤔

Fine words butter no parsnips

Hands up I wouldn’t take in a refugee.

I respect and admire anyone who has done.

Callistemon21

^GG so Braverman is the daughter of Ugandan immigrants and her husband is Jewish^.
I honestly don’t know what to say.

We've offered sanctuary to dispossessed people for centuries but in a controlled way; at the moment there seems to be lack of control and the government needs to up their game and find better ways to process the increasing numbers arriving, offer sanctuary to those who are genuine refugees and return those who are not.

That is how I feel.

It’s all in the paperwork, which is woefully behind.

For me GG it’s all about room. If the family could live ‘independently’.
I wouldn’t be able to share ‘my space’ with others. Any others!

Yes, me too.
They’ve been in power for 13 years and haven’t achieved anything regarding immigration.
And now they are trying to make political capital out of their own ineptitude and failure to put anything in place.

Braverman also benefited from taking part in the Erasmus scheme which, as a brexit supporter she saw fit to take away from others. More drawbridge pulling up of…..

These islands has seen waves of immigration through millennia, and there has always been little or no control except regarding Jewish immigration in the 13th century and later in the 19th century and 20th century. So our history is not exactly without stain. Where controls do exist they have had little impact.

Of course war always panics the government and they generally rush through some sort of alien bill, but the in flow of migrants tends to rise and fall with world events, like war, famine and that most modern of crises climate change.

There are exceptions to this where countries have mutual migrant agreements regarding their population like India/U.K. the most recent and European countries/U.K. - now defunct.

I think that unless and until the U.K. grasps this historic fact and recognises that migration is part of the human existence they will never control the issue.

FannyCornforth

Oh okay, thanks Maizie, I hadn’t seen it.
Sorry, I don’t understand what you mean about ‘skirting around the message’

The message?

The tory govt's language of fascism. As practised by Germany (and Spain and Italy, I believe) in the 1930s.

I think we have been a bit useless at 'selling' the positives of immigration, that would have been a much better narrative than shouting at people. It should have been a constant 'rhetoric' if you like from as far back as Blair. It's almost as if we are trying to make up too much lost ground, similar to Brexit actually, it was way too late in 2016 to start trying to sell the positives of a relationship with Europe, that 'battle' should have been ongoing for years.

I see some very powerful groups are now criticising the illegal immigration bill.

These include

The Board of Deputies of British Jews.

Amnesty

The Church of England

Amongst others and

We can add so many high profile people to this list

GrannyGravy13

Callistemon21

GG so Braverman is the daughter of Ugandan immigrants and her husband is Jewish.
I honestly don’t know what to say.

We've offered sanctuary to dispossessed people for centuries but in a controlled way; at the moment there seems to be lack of control and the government needs to up their game and find better ways to process the increasing numbers arriving, offer sanctuary to those who are genuine refugees and return those who are not.

That is how I feel.

It’s all in the paperwork, which is woefully behind.

There is a growing school of thought which suggests that the 'small boats' crisis is being ver deliberately created and managed by the government as an electoral ploy.

I watched the Sky News interview with the people smuggler. Questions.. if three quarters of the organisers are living in the UK why can't our security services find them? How did Sky find a 'smuggler' to interview? Why are the police, in effect, selling the rubber dinghies back to the smugglers? Why, when the boats can be monitored crossing the Channel, isn't there a security reception committee waiting for them when they land? Why is there a processing back log comprising more applications than the number of people who have arrived by small boat in the last 2 years?

The government doesn't seem to be trying very hard, does it?

Oh okay, thanks (again!) Maizie
re ‘the message’
I didn’t realise that it was being skirted around

I bet the skippers of the small boats do not dare reveal details of the gang master people traffickers MaizieD. They will be earning very good money as long as they comply but I bet their families will be at risk if any information is revealed to authorities.

Siope should have thanked you yesterday for the link, sorry, forgot.