the law as it stands on sex - part 3

If IW and those of his ilk were put in jail, he’d expect/demand to be put in a womens unit. Can you imagine the bullying that would go on . . . from him. The BB scenario amongst trapped females. Can you imagine the claims of bullying he would make against the female inmates. Bring on the transgender units ASAP.

I'm not sure about transgender units. If they are conversions (ie existing cell blocks that have been repurposed) then fine; but any purpose-built, modern prison spaces should go on merit - eg to those at the end of sentences, or to prisoners who have shown good behaviour - not automatically to transpeople just for saying they are trans. The cells they vacate could then be allocated as trans wings.

I don't say this to suggest that trans prisoners should have harsher treatment, but because prisons have been starved of investment for a long time, and money going into building transgender units should not be depriving other prisoners of anything simply because they don't say they are trans - it should be a level playing field.

Trans or not, we are talking about people who have committed crimes, and their treatment should be based on the seriousness of those crimes and their behaviour in jail, not on their so-called 'gender id'.

And indeed it seems very likely, from the stats, that some 'trans' prisoners are not trans at all.
Either that or it is actually the case that trans identified males are more likely to commit sex crimes than other males are.

Yes, that's the trouble when something is based on a 'feeling'. It can't be proved one way or the other, and is massively open to abuse - which is, of course, where we came in.

FarNorth

And indeed it seems very likely, from the stats, that some 'trans' prisoners are not trans at all.
Either that or it is actually the case that trans identified males are more likely to commit sex crimes than other males are.

My view entirely, based on what I’ve read in the press , the figures available from prisons/cps and, anecdotally - my 40 years work experience

Nicola Sturgeon today refused to define what a woman is because to do so could harm transgender people. So there we have it - women no longer exist in their own right. We are what men tell us we are.

Maybe NS is also afraid of the sort of reaction JKR experienced. It takes a brave female to speak the truth.

In this interview, Maya Forstater says that politicians are beginning to realise that they can't keep dodging this question and have to come up with an answer.

I hope NS comes to her senses before her government pushes through legislation about identifying as a something or other woman or man.

youtu.be/qVmT2yjT6DI

I think it's time politicians were asked 'What is a man?'
Perhaps that would concentrate their minds more than the airy-fairy concept of 'woman'.

I’ve tried asking about women and men on here, with limited success. I was once told that it was a trick question and the poster ‘wasn’t falling for that one’.

How can it be difficult, and why can’t transpeople just be transpeople? Women are asked how transwomen being women diminishes us, but I want to know how being called a transwoman diminishes a transwoman.

SueDonim

Nicola Sturgeon today refused to define what a woman is because to do so could harm transgender people. So there we have it - women no longer exist in their own right. We are what men tell us we are.

Isn't Nicola Sturgeon unintentionally revealing that she knows transwomen aren't actually women? So willing to sell women down the river just for personal power. She claims there are 'no conflict of rights', which she knows is a barefaced lie or else discussion would be permitted. When you need to keep any subject shielded from public examination it demonstrates ill intent.

I'm off out soon, but just came across this. Interesting, and useful that the Canadian census asked for sex at birth.

unherd.com/thepost/canada-census-reveals-how-many-people-are-trans/

FarNorth

I think it's time politicians were asked 'What is a man?'
Perhaps that would concentrate their minds more than the airy-fairy concept of 'woman'.

I'm repeating myself, but here is Egard's ad on the subject - and there is a comment "Notice how they did it without bashing women"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_HL0wiK4Zc

and, in case you missed it, Egard's "What is a woman?"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_JXZuXxc3M

“Women in prison are widely recognized to have experienced significant trauma before they are even placed in custody, trauma unique to their sex. About 70% have suffered child sex abuse, rape, domestic violence or a combination of those things. In one prison, HMP Drake Hall, 65% of the women were found to have suffered traumatic brain injuries, overwhelmingly as the result of domestic violence.”

According to Patricia, there were 158 males in prison (England and Wales) in 2021 who identified as women. “About 60% had a current or previous history of sex offenses,” she said. "There are nine males with GRCs and they are held in women’s prisons, including one who is known to be a sex offender."

This link is the story of 3 women, who are currently in UK prisons, with men who say they are women, and how they are so afraid that they are no longer taking a shower:

4w.pub/female-prisoners-forced-to-share-showers-with-intact-males/

The statistics on women prisoners won’t surprise anyone whose had even a passing involvement with women in prison. Desperate places for inhabitants and staff who work there
Most women get short sentences for offences like shop lifting. I’m not minimising the crime, but the reality is they’re stealing either/and to fund drug habits/put food on the table.

The information about trans women in prison, 60% with a current or past history of sex offences is another thing thst sadly doesn’t surprise me. How anyone can justify -lacing these individuals in a women’s prison is beyond me.

If necessary, use a wing in a male prison, like they do with rule 43 prisoners

It used to be (and might still be), a legal obligation in respect of the prison authorities/government to provide a "duty of care" to all prisoners, and prison officers.

If sexual offenders, with a penis, are running around in female prisons, especially in places like shower areas, they must be failing in this.?

Annie found out that the second man in the female prison was convicted of murder. Neither man was in any kind of transition process, and had fully intact male bodies, according to her. And yet, she says, “women who are traumatized and vulnerable are having to be naked and shower with men in their spaces, and some decided not to shower at all,” as prison cells don’t have showers - the women share a communal facility for that.

Afraid of rape, Annie asked a prison doctor for a contraceptive coil, something she never wanted or needed before.

“Soon, I need to make another appointment to have this device removed, which fills me with dread due to being a rape and sexual assault survivor. I can't believe I have to go through this again, four years after leaving prison, it almost feels like another violation on my body that I didn’t want, and as usual it stems from men.”
“I didn’t want to see men there but I did. I didn’t want to share showers with men but I was forced to. I didn’t want to see men prance about naked in my shower area yet there they were doing just that,” Annie said. “There is no escaping these men from morning until night and unless women refuse to work and remain in their cells they can't be safe.”

Annie also recounted that, while waiting to see her children, she was locked in a holding cell with one of the men with no prison officer. She said that female prisoners can’t challenge the policies, or they will be punished. “A woman can be charged, a woman can be written up which affects too many things to mention. She can have privileges withdrawn. She can be locked in her cell for longer than the usual 23 hours. She can have visitation removed.”

Please could those posters, who kept reassuring us that trans women are no danger to women prisoners because they've made specialist prison wings for them, come back and explain how this is clearly not the case, as of today's date?

Please could those posters, who kept reassuring us that trans women are no danger to women prisoners because they've made specialist prison wings for them, come back and explain how this is clearly not the case, as of today's date?

They can't, Chewbacca. It's the 5th Amendment defence that saying anything might prove the case against them.

Doodledog

*Please could those posters, who kept reassuring us that trans women are no danger to women prisoners because they've made specialist prison wings for them, come back and explain how this is clearly not the case, as of today's date?*

They can't, Chewbacca. It's the 5th Amendment defence that saying anything might prove the case against them.

I read Chewbacca’s post with horror, but Doodledog I think you’re right, but in their place, I would stay as silent as those posters you mention, rather than defend the indefensible.

This rape survivor, "Sarah" is suing a Brighton based rape support charity, for allowing TW's to access their (previously) "female only" support /therapy groups, and by them not offering a separate service for biological females only..

"Sarah, who is now married and in her 40s, requested a support group for those who were born female but said the organisation ‘made it really clear they can’t offer me any help’.

The Survivors’ Network’s trans inclusive policy states its women-only services are available to any ‘self-identifying woman’.

This is defined as ‘an individual that feels their gender identity is a woman, irrespective of the gender they were assigned at birth’. " ?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10779947/Rape-victims-legal-fight-transgender-woman-allowed-access-female-support-group.html

Is it OK that 6th formers are telling 12 year olds when they should be having sex? That they are a-romantic and a-sexual? That if they’re not into make-up they are displaying as transmen?
Is it right that they should be telling the girls not to tell their parents?
I’m going into school later this morning to discuss what they think grooming and sexual bullying means.

What?

That’s really worrying, but is the logical extension of so-called ‘gender’ identity, isn’t it? If you ‘behave as/live as/feel like’ a woman, you are a woman, and ditto a man. The trouble is that nobody can say what behaving like/living as or feeling like a woman actually means - that is something that others have to just accept, or be accused of transphobia, racism or whatever.

It’s insidious. As many of us have said, ‘feeling like’ a woman is meaningless - what it means to me may well be different from what it means to others reading this, but once the TRAs get to force others to accept the concept they can start to define it, and also to define what it is not, which is clearly dangerous to anyone who believes that being a woman should not be something that needs the approval of the patriarchy.

Where is this, Mollygo? Who is doing this?

Can’t add further info at the moment as this is being looked into as it’s all news to them!!!!

Does anyone know what is in the GSE curriculum to be taught about this subject?