Policing the party

4 new groups set up to get rid of Starmer who was elected as
party leader.

There’s a slightly different take on it from ITV News.
www.itv.com/news/2021-07-20/labour-expels-groups-critical-of-work-to-tackle-anti-semitism-in-party

NB this is not Starmer’s decision to be clear, it’s a party decision.

GagaJo

Not sure why Starmer bothers continuing with the party name really. The party he envisions isn't Labour at all. Which is fine, but he'll lose a lot of supporters by doing it.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/20/labour-votes-to-ban-four-far-left-factions-that-supported-corbyns-leadership

Hooray, and getting rid of the anti semites will appeal to the voters who left Labour due to Corbyn and his extreme left wing.

Whatever you call it the UK needs an effective opposition, if the extreme left continue to cold shoulder Starmer how is that going to be achieved.

I don’t ever see a left wing party getting a majority in the UK so maybe the answer is for the Labour Party to split into hard line and moderates, each returning separate MPs creating a hung parliament

Yes policing the party yes he has lost a lot of supporters He is being called Keith not as a joke but because he does not have the interests of the workers show the passion as the original founder of the Labour Party did

Well it worked for Neil Kinnock and made New Labour electable and in power for 13 years.

Why is Labour so afraid of being electable?

It isn't that we Labour supporters don't want Labour to be elected. We CAN'T vote for Tory lite because it's against our belief systems.

By all means, go Tory lite (again) but for god's sake, DON'T pretend the party is still the Labour party.

I won't vote for a party that doesn't reflect my beliefs. THAT is the whole point of one person, one vote. Whether we support a popular party or not.

We should be voting for individuals or policies that represent what we want - not blindly for a party because we've always voted for that party.

GagaJo you mean ‘some of’ we Labour supporters, we are of varying shades.

The Labour party needs to concentrate on policies that attract voters, unless they do that they are wasting their time.

No matter what voters say in focus groups, although that can be helpful, it is the cross they put on the ballot sheet that counts. At the moment that cross is not going beside the labour candidate. Sort that out and they stand a chance.

It will mean some purists having to put sme much cherished policies (which ones I do not know) on the back burner.

Being true to principles is all very well and good, but sadly, it does not get the Labour party elected. Surely it is better to get into office, show the public that there is nothing to be afraid of, and start sorting out a fairer society? If you listened to some left politicians you would never know that Tony Blair had won three elections. Good and fair governance can only be achieved by having an effective opposition, and it is time the Labour party stopped arguing about who is the most true to their beliefs and do what they should be doing; get rid of this rotten corrupt Tory government before they take this country even deeper into the isolationist mess we are heading for. The Labour party arguing about who is more true to the party reminds me of Muslim factions arguing about who is the most true to the faith; from the outside most non Muslims cannot tell the difference.

Anniebach

4 new groups set up to get rid of Starmer who was elected as
party leader.

What about the way Starmer and his ilk conspired against JC when he was the elected leader?

Lincslass

GagaJo

Not sure why Starmer bothers continuing with the party name really. The party he envisions isn't Labour at all. Which is fine, but he'll lose a lot of supporters by doing it.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/20/labour-votes-to-ban-four-far-left-factions-that-supported-corbyns-leadership

Hooray, and getting rid of the anti semites will appeal to the voters who left Labour due to Corbyn and his extreme left wing.

Why does opposing apartheid in Israel make me an anti-Semite? It didn't make me anti-South African when I opposed it in that country. Apartheid is wrong and should be challenged wherever it happens

Most anti-semitism has nothing to do with apartheid in Israel. It is just good old fashioned anti-semitism that goes back to to the early days of christianity. Cherry picking one small corner of anti-semitism and using that to symbolise the whole is - anti-semitic.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You can always relied on for an interesting interpretation Grany, but to be clear this a party decision, not Starmer acting in isolation as the leader.

Message deleted by Gransnet for repeating a deleted post.

M0nica

Most anti-semitism has nothing to do with apartheid in Israel. It is just good old fashioned anti-semitism that goes back to to the early days of christianity. Cherry picking one small corner of anti-semitism and using that to symbolise the whole is - anti-semitic.

I'm confused by your comment. Are you saying that opposing apartheid in Israel is anti or not anti-Semitic?

Opposing apartheid in Israel has nothing to do with antisemitism. It is simply opposing a nation state , which is acting in a way that ignores the human rights of a group of its citizens.

The two events are entirely different. To conflate the policy of a nation state with the treatment of a group of people who used to live in that geographical area, in many cases more than a millenium ago and use it as a reason for that group to be persecuted is an act of antisemitim in relation to the people, not the behaviour of the state.

Anti-semitism is picking on a group of people with a common history and denigrating them and being prejudiced aagainst them not for what they are but for past events they have no involvement inthis one issue.

Being true to principles is all very well and good, but sadly, it does not get the Labour party elected.

This x 100. At this rate we'll be stuck with BoJo for another 4 years.

But if we just have a replacement Boris, what is the point? Although, much as I am not a fan of Starmer, I have to admit, he is a huge improvement on the blonde idiot.

Thanks for your post Monica.

Being electable has got nothing to do with abandoning your principles. Any political party should have underlying principles and a philosophy that provides a justification for them.

It is then a question of 'it is not what you do, its the way that you do it' You develop policies that make you electable then implement them through ways that are based on your core principles.

@BeckettUnite

When you inherit the largest socialist party in Europe, lose over 115k members, alienate Left trade unionists, create disunity, take your party to the brink of bankruptcy. And your answer is to proscribe groupings. Appalling.