A big thank you to those who voted for Brexit

Rejoining is not going to happen, they would not have us as full members, what may happen is rejoining the EEA or possibly EFTA and share the same economic rules.

I think KS is sensibly going with the flow. For now at least. He will be aware of Labour’s red wall who lent Boris their vote. KS won’t want to alienate voters (just now) who overwhelmingly voted Boris in on his mandate.

Mind you, last week the former Labour shadow minister Rosie Duffield said the majority of Labour MPs were “desperate to rejoin” the EU “at heart”, adding that Labour MPs voted for Boris Johnson’s deal “with a heavy heart” and “haven’t given up” on EU membership.

In the Sunday Telegraph there’s an article saying Boris has tasked a team of 20 civil servants to take out rules & regulations from swathes of documents. It’s been called ‘Operation Bleach’.

I trust that we, the citizens of the UK, are gong to be told which 'rules and regulations' (of which, by the way, no Leaver has ever been able to quote one that blights their life or hampers their business) are being expunged because they just might be things that materially affect our lives, like working hours directives and environmental protections.

And, as EU regulations were taken into law in the UK and 'transferred' to the gloriously independent UK by way of the Withdrawal Act and are now to be observed as part of the Level Playing Field in our FTA with the EU, I think civil servants might have to be very careful about what they delete else, Wham! on go the tariffs.

MaizieD
I acknowledge the metaphorical spat, but as someone who has not engaged in any Brexit conversation for a good while (because it had become so entrenched on both sides). Yes I voted Leave, however I wouldn’t have really bothered if the vote had gone the other way, in fact I was shocked at the result.
I returned to the forum expecting a bit of optimism (even grudging), just as those who vote for a failed political party in an election accept and hope for the best, yet the same people are still looking for problems.
We were promised gridlock at the ports, it hasn’t materialised, however rather than acknowledging this, we are hit with the odd truck with the wrong documentation.
As mentioned in my initial post, How many new enterprises run smoothly from day one? How many have moved houses without hitch? Yet remain voters expect this of Brexit.
And whatever, this is the now status quo and as such, wouldn’t it be better to look for ways to encourage those now trying to make it work and the entrepreneurs looking for innovative opportunities rather than mourning what has gone and looking for things to criticise?
Some have asked for examples of my optimism. My major optimistic thought is my faith in our people. For centuries our innovators and entrepreneurs have led the world, innovations of recent times have been the jet engine, radar, IT and internet, these are just two or three and its not just UK that have benefited from our enterprise, the rest of the world has. So, I am optimistic and I have faith.

Perhaps a Johnson fan could tell us why U.K. have rejected the EU offer of visa free travel for musicians?

Joelsnan Whenever people move house or set up a new business it usually involves just a few people. Generally they will have done their research before undertaking such a change.

Brexit has been inflicted upon the millions who voted to Remain and the Leavers who have since had a change of heart.

MayBee There have been very few, if any tours this year. All the jazz festivals in France were cancelled from the beginning of March as were virtually all the other music events.

I suspect that Johnson isn't a music lover and/or he is unaware of the financial contributions our musicians make to the economy. which is far greater than that from fish I guess.

vegansrock
Why do you assume I am a ‘’Jonson fan’.? I would not presume you were a Trump lover. Thank you, I make my own mind up based upon evidence, common sense and research.

Dinahmo
Extrapolate my comment about house moves. In many instances not everyone in the family are happy with the move, but have to go along with the majority or senior decision makers. It is often hateful initially losing familiarity, friends etc., but in most instances these soon become distant memories as new friendships are forged and you embed into the home and community.

“Johnson”

vegansrock
There is nearly always an alternative perspective:

Lord True, closing the debate, explained: “In negotiations with the EU on business travel we proposed to expand the list of permitted activities for short-term business visitors, notably to include work done by artists, entertainers, musicians and supporting staff.

”This would have ensured that musicians could have travelled to the EU without work permits.

“However, the EU rejected this because they considered that touring musicians were providing a service directly to consumers rather than performing a business visit.

”We did point out that there were other types of short-term business that provide direct services, but the EU didn’t alter its position

Joelsnan have you read what’s happened at Holyhead port?

Transit is down by two thirds so far, new ferry routes have opened up to take goods directly from France to Ireland to avoid the red tape, and many British companies including big names aren’t currently transporting goods to Ireland. There will be mass job losses in an area with minimal alternative employment if things don’t improve.

Joelsnan

vegansrock
There is nearly always an alternative perspective:

Lord True, closing the debate, explained: “In negotiations with the EU on business travel we proposed to expand the list of permitted activities for short-term business visitors, notably to include work done by artists, entertainers, musicians and supporting staff.

”This would have ensured that musicians could have travelled to the EU without work permits.

“However, the EU rejected this because they considered that touring musicians were providing a service directly to consumers rather than performing a business visit.

^”We did point out that there were other types of short-term business that provide direct services, but the EU didn’t alter its position^

That is what being a third country is all about. Show me where the EU relaxes its requirements for other third country musicians and I'll concede that you have a point.

Some have asked for examples of my optimism

Absolutely no we didn't, Joelsnan. We asked to be given examples of new opportunities. I know they both begin with 'op' but the words have vastly different meanings.

I'm sorry that you're disappointed about some Leavers' reactions, even now that the deed is done, but I refer you back to the extract I posted from Chris Grey's blog.

Brexiters believe themselves to have been a ‘resistance’ movement that has enacted a national liberation, they expected the whole of the country to welcome it, and are genuinely bemused that at least half the country does no such thing.

If you want to continue with your house moving analogy, it's like moving the family from the Caribbean to Siberia when half didn't want to go and don't like it there...

More messages from food exporters who are finding the door to the EU is now shut. Haulage firms won’t take their loads; bureaucratic/IT systems failing.
A multi-billion pound trade system is being tested for the 1st time, in real time. And it’s going wrong

With reference to musicians. It's not because we're now a third country.

An exclusive report in The Independent revealed that a “standard” proposal – that would exempt performers from the cost and bureaucracy of visas allowing them to tour EU countries – offered the same exemptions to the UK as enjoyed by countries as contrasting as the US and Saudi Arabia.

The Independent understands that this was turned down because the government is insisting on denying that same right to EU artists visiting the UK to perform, in part due to home secretary Priti Patel’s harsh stance on immigration.

“It is usually in our agreements with third countries, that [work] visas are not required for musicians. We tried to include it, but the UK said no,” an EU source close to the negotiations said.

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/uk-musicians-visa-eu-brexit-rejected-reaction-b1785044.html

It is this refusal to allow reciprocal agreements that is causing so many problems, if it isn’t free from EU law it’s no deal, no matter how beneficial

Talk about cutting off nose to spite face. tHis must be the first trade deal in history where it was negotiated to make terms worse than they were before.
Joelsnan I asked a question of any Johnson fans - I didn’t assume you were one.

Oh look.

France has unilaterally exempted British artists, scientists and others from requiring work visa within the 90-days limit, something I've yet to see mentioned in UK media.

Did it in December,it appears from the thread.

mobile.twitter.com/PhilippeAuclair/status/1348004878673711105

Exercising their sovereignty. ?

Smashed, in response to your very rude post. You can whinge forever, that is your right. I prefer living without the weight of Europe on our back, that is my opinion. It is not a police state we are living in, we are all entitled to our own views. I believe in free enterprise and having our own laws not overturned at every opportunity. You continue to be bitter. You can't change it so it is pointless, but carry on.

Should have been Maisie not Smashed.

Sparkling

Smashed, in response to your very rude post. You can whinge forever, that is your right. I prefer living without the weight of Europe on our back, that is my opinion. It is not a police state we are living in, we are all entitled to our own views. I believe in free enterprise and having our own laws not overturned at every opportunity. You continue to be bitter. You can't change it so it is pointless, but carry on.

Do tell me how the 'weight of Europe' has been oppressing you and blighting your life for the past 40+ years?

And do stop trying to patronise me. It really is tough luck on you if a great many people don't appreciate your vote to release them from an imaginary evil.

And people disagreeing with you is not being bitter. If the political party I voted for won the general election I wouldnt expect all those who voted against it to suddenly agree with their policies.

^ And do stop trying to patronise me. It really is tough luck on you if a great many people don't appreciate your vote to release them from an imaginary evil.^

I imagine you’ll be having great empathy then with the Republican voters - 75,00,000 of them - over in America right now MaizieD as their votes didn’t go their way just as yours didn’t after Brexit?

Urmstongran

^ And do stop trying to patronise me. It really is tough luck on you if a great many people don't appreciate your vote to release them from an imaginary evil.^

I imagine you’ll be having great empathy then with the Republican voters - 75,00,000 of them - over in America right now MaizieD as their votes didn’t go their way just as yours didn’t after Brexit?

Bit weird