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A big thank you to those who voted for Brexit

(790 Posts)
Dinahmo Thu 07-Jan-21 16:03:15

I've just been reading about the additional charges that people buying goods from the UK are having to pay on purchases arriving in EU countries. So much so that many retailers are no longer selling to people in the EU. The list is long but includes M & S, John Lewis and Fortnums. I buy a variety of things from the UK, including clothing and health supplements. I am no longer able to do this. But it's not just me and other Brits living abroad, it's everybody in the EU.

So, those cheesemakers will have a hard time and I will no longer be able to buy the very good quality cheddar from my local supermarket (which the French like to, not just Brits) because it will be too expensive.

David0205 Fri 08-Jan-21 19:54:40

Brexit is DONE.
We are out of the EU jurisdictions (well most of them).

If only, we are hamstrung by the threat that if we change or they change there may be tariffs or even bans. There is no prospect of a US trade deal anytime soon if at all, they will of course sort out the export paperwork, it the global opportunities that are not to be seen. All the promises look to be just hot air.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 08-Jan-21 19:55:02

Being warn down with having to face the results of your actions doesn’t compare to a child having severe epileptic fits throughout the day because Prescriptions from third countries cannot be accepted from outside the EU.

It was always known that this was the case, it was warned times and again.

Project fear you all chortled.

MayBee70 Fri 08-Jan-21 19:56:26

Urmstongran

I don’t ‘sit back’ and enjoy anybody’s ill health WW. That was a pretty insensitive remark.

I’m very sorry indeed dragonfly to hear your change of medication is causing you to have side effects.

When we buy a branded drug like Neurofen which is expensive, we are reassured to be told that generic ibuprofen works just as well. We are paying the branded firm for their advertising costs etc.

I wonder what your doctor thinks?

I hope you get it sorted soon. I’m genuinely sorry you are struggling.

But you don’t feel in any way responsible for this do you Urmstongran? It’s like the Millgram experiment isn’t it? For what it’s worth I used to work for the NHS and can remember a doctor once being furious that a patient had been given a generic. Sometimes just a small difference in formulation can cause problems, especially, eg drugs for epilepsy

Urmstongran Fri 08-Jan-21 20:02:26

But you don’t feel in any way responsible for this do you Urmstongran?

Well, it would be an enormous burden to place on my shoulders. Surely if dragonfly’s doctor has any concerns they will discuss them going forward? I do not think for one minute her symptoms will be ignored if they persist.

PippaZ Fri 08-Jan-21 20:02:36

Whitewavemark2

The leavers are busy enjoying their sovereignty, they couldn’t care less about all the struggling businesses.

This is the sovereignty that those who where in charge of getting us out, come hell or high water, see as personal or individual sovereignty. The sort that allows them to pay as little as possible to anyone working for them and take away the laws that protect them. The sovereignty that allows them to pay little or no tax and affords them the privilege of being able to pay for all the privatised medicine, dentists, bin men, etc. while the same "sovereignty" allows many to starve, live on the street, have only the old women down the road to deliver their children while living in their "small state" economy.

Just like Trump, the ERG and it's hangers on did not want to "free" the UK for it's people but for what they could achieve for themselves. This is just the beginning. Although Johnson has chipped away at our Justice system, our parliamentary system and our very democracy we are just about hanging on to a democratic country. We could stop these people. Obviously we are unlikely to get back to the days of affluence and influence we have known but never let it be said that the "Leavers" were not told. Each time they take a state provision away remember it's gone from you and yours too if a time ever comes when you need it. It's gone for people who can only see crime as a way out as well and you will be living with the consequences, and those running the country do not care and will not stop it happening because they will thrive under it.

Urmstongran Fri 08-Jan-21 20:06:37

It's gone for people who can only see crime as a way out as well and you will be living with the consequences, and those running the country do not care and will not stop it

Bluddy hell thats pushing it PippaZ. Some deep disturbing thoughts you’re pushing tonight.

Hyperbolic stuff & nonsense, in my opinion.

PippaZ Fri 08-Jan-21 20:14:18

Urmstongran

^It's gone for people who can only see crime as a way out as well and you will be living with the consequences, and those running the country do not care and will not stop it^

Bluddy hell thats pushing it PippaZ. Some deep disturbing thoughts you’re pushing tonight.

Hyperbolic stuff & nonsense, in my opinion.

Wasn't that what they were saying to people who tried to point out the issues with Trump?

You may not agree with it UG but that doesn't make it nonsense. Would you like me to add some quotes? I am hardly the only one looking at this.

MayBee70 Fri 08-Jan-21 20:15:28

Urmstongran

^But you don’t feel in any way responsible for this do you Urmstongran?^

Well, it would be an enormous burden to place on my shoulders. Surely if dragonfly’s doctor has any concerns they will discuss them going forward? I do not think for one minute her symptoms will be ignored if they persist.

So the answer to my question is yes. Millgram at work.

GrannyGravy13 Fri 08-Jan-21 20:20:25

Slavish obedience to authority, not a big Milligram fan myself!

Urmstongran Fri 08-Jan-21 20:25:16

I worked for the NHS for 40years MayBee but I fail to see the relevance here.

Regards Millgram.
“Why was Milgram experiment unethical?
The first ethical issue was the degree of deception. The participants were not provided with a clear explanation of any possible risks prior to volunteering for the study, rather they were lead to believe they were causing physical harm to another individual, exposing them to potential psychological harm.”

And -

“What was the conclusion of the Milgram experiment?
Stanley Milgram reached the conclusion that people would obey instructions from those who they saw as legitimate authority figures, even if the instructions they received were to do something to harm another person. From this, Milgram concluded that people were socialized to follow immoral or unlawful orders.“

So in answer to your question,
No, not in my case.
You’re stretching it by assuming that (a) I’m uncaring and (b) that I didn’t do my own independent research before voting for Brexit.

Oh & btw I don’t do FB so adverts couldn’t have influenced my decision either.

Urmstongran Fri 08-Jan-21 20:26:49

I feel as though I’m in the dock tonight!
?

MayBee70 Fri 08-Jan-21 20:27:29

So you’ve never come across someone having problems with a generic and having the problem ignored by their doctor. Therefore, in your world it doesn’t happen. Fair enough.

Urmstongran Fri 08-Jan-21 20:35:38

Nope, sorry. Not something I ever encountered.

I’m going back to my article on happiness. This constant Brexit battering is exhausting as I try to field questions from all comers!

Pantglas2 Fri 08-Jan-21 21:25:44

How come you’re in thrall to doctors Maybe, and don’t hold them to account - it’s ok to hold lay people with a vote to account but not professionals?

MaizieD Fri 08-Jan-21 22:00:52

This is not a 'bump'

Start

LONDON (Reuters) - Many Scottish fishermen have halted exports to European Union markets after post-Brexit bureaucracy shattered the system that used to put fresh langoustines and scallops in French shops just over a day after they were harvested.
Fishing exporters told Reuters their businesses could become unviable after the introduction of health certificates, customs declarations and other paperwork added days to their delivery times and hundreds of pounds to the cost of each load.

Business owners said they had tried to send small deliveries to France and Spain to test the new systems this week but it was taking five hours to secure a health certificate in Scotland, a document which is required to apply for other customs paperwork.

In the first working week after Brexit, one-day deliveries were taking three or more days - if they got through at all.

Owners could not say for sure where their valuable cargo was. A trade group told boats to stop fishing exported stocks.

“Our customers are pulling out,” Santiago Buesa of SB Fish told Reuters. “We are fresh product and the customers expect to have it fresh, so they’re not buying. It’s a catastrophe.”

On Thursday evening, the Scottish fishing industry’s biggest logistics provider DFDS Scotland told customers it had taken the “extraordinary step” of halting until Monday export groupage, when multiple product lines are carried, to try to fix IT issues, paperwork errors and the backlog.

Scotland harvests vast quantities of langoustines, scallops, oysters, lobsters and mussels from sea fisheries along its bracing Atlantic coast which are rushed by truck to grace the tables of European diners in Paris, Brussels and Madrid.

But Britain’s departure from the EU’s orbit introduced reams of paperwork and costs that must be completed to move goods across the new customs border, the biggest change to its trade since the launch of the Single Market in 1993.

Those trading in food and livestock face the toughest requirements, hitting the express delivery of freshly caught fish that used to move overnight from Scotland, via England, into France, before going on to other European markets in days.

David Noble, whose Aegirfish buys from Scottish fleets to export to Europe, said he would have to pay between 500 to 600 pounds ($815) per day for paperwork, wiping out most profit.

His concern is that this marks more than just teething problems, and says he cannot pass on the higher costs of doing business. “I’m questioning whether to carry on,” he said.

“If our fish is too expensive our customers will buy elsewhere.”

.......

Fishermen across Britain have accused Prime Minister Boris Johnson of betrayal after he previously vowed to take back control of British waters. With little new control and little access to customer markets, many are in despair.

Fishing trade bodies said mistakes in filling out paperwork meant entire consignments were being checked. A French fishmongers’ union said numerous seafood trucks had been held up at the customs point in Boulogne for several hours, and even up to a day, due to faulty paperwork.

While that should improve with time, and IT issues should be resolved, Seafood Scotland warned they could see the “destruction of a centuries-old market” if it does not.

Fergus Ewing, Scottish secretary for the rural economy, said it was better for problems to be identified and resolved in Scotland than hundreds of miles away.

SB Fish’s Buesa, angered at suggestions that traders were not prepared, said all his paperwork was correct and demanded to know why business leaders were not making more of a fuss.

He owns the business with his father, has been exporting for 28 years and employs around 50 people. “I’m in the trenches here,” he said. “It’s gridlock.”

End

www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-scotland-fishing-exclusive/exclusive-its-a-catastrophe-scottish-fishermen-halt-exports-due-to-brexit-red-tape-idUKKBN29D0UB?edition-redirect=uk

I've c & p'd most of the article to increase its chances of actually being read.

Urmstongran Fri 08-Jan-21 22:07:55

These are bumps MD.
As I said earlier, it’s only DAY 8 and those affected will up their game, source the information and paperwork, contact the experts for guidance. Money is at stake. It talks. People will listen and adjust accordingly.

For example, the delivery group DPD have stopped going over to Europe just now as 20% of the parcels they were carrying were non compliant with the EU regulations. Turn that around. 80% of parcels were compliant and had the correct paperwork.

Everyone will catch up soon enough. Then DPD will restart deliveries.
?

MaizieD Fri 08-Jan-21 22:40:37

I don't think you read the article, UG Losing thousands of pounds worth of business is not a 'bump'. Increased costs are permanent, not a 'bump'. Losing competitiveness is not a 'bump'. Jeez. I've never run a business but I'm not so stupid that I can't understand the implications.

Anyway. Following your assertion that businesses knew in October what to expect, funnily enough, government guidance is still being issued; 8 days in

Edwin Hayward Unicorn face ?
@uk_domain_names

The hardcore Brexit red tape fetishists are going to go nuts over this spanking new document...

"Transporting goods between Great Britain and the EU: guidance for hauliers and commercial drivers"

A mere 11,583 words of sensual pleasure, published today.

So much more stimulating and thrilling than the 8 word pre-Brexit state of affairs...
1. Get truck
2. Load truck
3. Prepare CMR note
4. Drive

www.gov.uk/guidance/transporting-goods-between-great-britain-and-the-eu-guidance-for-hauliers-and-commercial-drivers

Everyone will catch up soon enough. Then DPD will restart deliveries.

It's going to cost everyone MORE. Do you not understand that? Why should that be a Good Thing?

Summerlove Fri 08-Jan-21 23:06:53

biba70

Maizie, I have re-read my post several times- and I just cannot possibly imagine how you could come up with that conclusion. Truly.

Brexit is causing and will cause massive amounts of serious damage to individuals and businesses, and the UK as a whole.

No being able to order 'stuff' like clothes, etc, from abroad, or with increased taxes, sounds like a very minor inconvenience compared to the above. Perhaps what some call 'a First World Problem'.

You know that I am, always was and always will be, remain and pro EU. Very hurtful.

I didn’t read the comment as pro leave, but it was certainly very condescending to someone who obviously wished remain had won.

Dinahmo Fri 08-Jan-21 23:09:19

biba70

to be honest Dinahmo, the problem you have highlighted is just a bit of a pain- and really very minor compared to the real severe issues Brexit is throwing up. Honestly!

In the scheme of things this problem is quite minor but it is something that most people wouldn't have expected. We have discussed on here the major problems that could be expected over several months, if not years. This is just another nail in the coffin.

Dinahmo Fri 08-Jan-21 23:18:26

Urmstongran

No I didn’t think that at all WW.

Plus the Remain campaign did not say that would be the outcome if we didn’t vote ‘their’ way.
I do recall a poster who regularly told us about isotope shortages but has never mentioned it since so I presume that hasn’t happened either?

I genuinely do not believe our government would jeopardise our health. Negotiations on medicines will have taken place over many months. Nothing in the news about adverse outcomes?

The govt has already jeopardised peoples' health - with the various cockups over covid and you know what they are so I won't list them now.

MaizieD Fri 08-Jan-21 23:22:17

I didn’t read the comment as pro leave, but it was certainly very condescending to someone who obviously wished remain had won.

It wasn't that it sounded pro-leave; it was that it sounded, if taken the wrong way, which I did initially, as if biba was saying that Dinahmo's problem wasn't terribly important. Which felt like the sort of thing a Leaver would say. I realise now that this was not her intention. I know that biba is as fervent a 'Remainer' as I am. And that Brexit has caused her lots of problems, including a significant loss of income. This is no secret, she's mentioned it several times on here. In fact, the first time she mentioned it, not long after the referendum, a Leaver actually told her 'hard luck, we won, get over it..'. That was a real shock... but just a taste of what was to come...

Dinahmo Fri 08-Jan-21 23:41:32

I agree that my "problem" is not particularly important as I am one purchaser but there are millions like me - not just Brits living in the EU but all the other EU residents who buy stuff from the UK. As we have already seen many small businesses selling fresh food are already suffering and there will be more over the next few weeks.

On a slightly different tack, a friend teaches English to workers in a large scale operation that makes a lot of patisserie for M & S. I'm wondering what will happen now. She did tell me that the company had got its paperwork sorted out but that was a few months ago. Maybe things have changed. Possible redundancies here in France perhaps?

vegansrock Sat 09-Jan-21 02:53:16

My highlights after a week of “freedom”
- loads more red tape and paperwork
- many firms have stopped delivering
- Have to pay big new VAT bills
- Fishermen and farmers complaining they'll go bust
- Racial abuse in sleepy Penzance
- Lorry drivers fined or turned away for not having Kent Access Pass. Some stuck in Calais for 24 hours
-Food not available in some parts of the country
- Some vaccines not available until April
- British travellers denied access to EU countries
So far, so Brexit. Can't wait to see what else we have won.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 09-Jan-21 03:11:40

vegansrock

We have won our sovereignty. All the leavers are really enjoying it.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 09-Jan-21 03:34:21

The Parliamentary Brexit committee had plans for a 6 month in depth look at the Christmas Brexit agreement.

Rees-Mogg has shut the committee down, effectively preventing democratic scrutiny of the Brexit deal.

This populist government is suppressing democratic processes.