Given up on Brexit

Varian I think you are wrong, it is now impossible to go for a hard Brexit by walking away, even if the EU offer a terrible deal.Parliament itself has seen to that, as it refuses to accept a no deal.It’s trying the government’s hands completely within the negotiations.Imagine buying a car, the manager tells you the exorbitant price of it, you offer a lower price, the manager refuses so you walk away.He may call you back if he wants a deal, but if he doesn’t, then you can leave and get a better deal elsewhere.
Parliament will never go for a no deal with the EU, the EU know this and will give the worst deal they possibly can.
There would likely be a GE and if Corbyn was PM, they then have a big problem.They couldn’t possibly refuse to go ahead with leaving the EU, for fear of what the people would say, after being promised ( by both Parties) that the referendum result would be honoured.
So, they would come up with the cowardly solution to hold another referendum, then they could say ‘ ah, the people have spoken’ if this time round the vote was to stay.

I doubt that many people would ever trust a politician again after that.

T May does carry a lot of blame, by calling for a GE and then mucking it up.Meaning of course, that she was in a weak position to start with.Add to that, the exreme Brexiters
Within the Cabinet and also back benchers constantly wanting their own way, then, the whole of Parliament who won’t accept a no deal scenario, even though that would help a lot with the negotiating. Add to that all the Remain voices in Parliament who refuse to accept ( personally) the result of the vote,even though the main parties have officially accepted it.
There are far more to blame than T May!

Very few people actually trust politicians. A lot of them lie or promise pie in the sky. What is more important is for people to be properly informed about the consequenses of various options.

Even now after all this time, we see audience members on QT (selected audience members, selected by the extreme brexiter in charge of audience selection) saying simplistic things like "why don't we just leave?"

These people need to be properly informed as the likely consequenses, as spelled out by the government's own impact assessments. All brexits would be bad for our economy but the most extreme brexit would be utterly catastrophic.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-leaked-impact-assessment-economy-gdp-north-east-west-midlands-a8199746.html

it is now impossible to go for a hard Brexit by walking away, even if the EU offer a terrible deal.Parliament itself has seen to that, as it refuses to accept a no deal.It’s trying the government’s hands completely within the negotiations.Imagine buying a car, the manager tells you the exorbitant price of it, you offer a lower price, the manager refuses so you walk away.He may call you back if he wants a deal, but if he doesn’t, then you can leave and get a better deal elsewhere.

This is such a terrible analogy.

It's far more like saying "If you don't give me what I want I'll shoot myself"

Please help us to avoid national suicide.

The only hope is, that the EU want our billions in pay off so badly that they do give in on certain areas.

Gabriella, in a debate or serious discussion, anyone sensible will choose quotes that will back up their arguments-surely. Anything else would not make sense.

The car purchase analogy is totally ridiculous. There are 1000s of brands, and 10s of 1000s of garages.

In the Trade Deal situation- there are very few choices, and all of them come with strings and compromises attached.

What 'areas' would you like them to give in on, in fact? Can't you see that if they 'give in' on some key points which form the very basis of the EU, they will have to do the same for Switzerland- and then everyone else who asks.

If you like analogies, how about this one. You belong to a Squash Club, and there is 3 types of membership, active any day or time, active non peak days and hours, and social with access to bar and social areas, for those who no longer play, or spouses. But you decide you quite fancy playing with your mates, but not as often as usual, but week-ends and peak time evenings- and you ask the club if they can have a special membership, just for you, to allow you to do this at a much reduced rate. Do you think they till agree? And if they do, what would the likely outcome be?

When the Leave campaign told us that we would have the upper hand in any negotiations with the EU, they kept saying they sell more to us than we do to them, the French farmers will still want to sell their wine, the German car-makers will want to sell their cars, so we will have the upper hand.

Some people obviously believed this simplistic argument. But the fact is about 44% of our exports are to the other EU countries and at the most only 16% of their exports come here. Therefore we have more to lose. Any kind of brexit, particularly a hard brexit, let alone a "no deal" scenario, will hurt us far more than it could possibly hurt the EU 27.

Brexit campaign group Vote Leave has been fined £61,000 and referred to the police after an Electoral Commission probe said it broke electoral law.

There was a time when scandals such as this would have shocked people. Not any more. The whole brexit project has been so shot through with murky scandals and dodgy dealings from the start, it is only what we expect.

I do not see that fines are sufficient punishment when the people ultimately behind it are multi-millionaires and billionaires. What should be the appropriate sanctions? How can we prevent it happening again?

If this happened in some third world country we would be vocal in condemning it.

It happened at the last GE Varian by all political parties, they all overspent and were fined.
We cannot prevent it from happening again, and no doubt it happened quite a bit in the past.

an election is for a short period of time- Brexit is for ... ever?

To be fair, although almost all of the 65 million of us who live in the UK are likely to suffer if brexit goes ahead, there a few people who will be just fine, like Farage, with his EU pension and German passports for his family, Rees Mogg, who has set up an office in Dublin to take advantage of continuing EU membership and John Redwood (remember him?)

"Labour has criticised the arch-Eurosceptic MP John Redwood for “talking down Britain” after he recently wrote a column of financial advice in which he recommended investors “look further afield” because of the state of the UK economy.

In the piece for the Financial Times, the Conservative MP – who has a £180,000 second job as chief global strategist for Charles Stanley – said the European Central Bank was promoting faster growth when the UK was seeing a squeeze on credit."

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/13/labour-accuses-john-redwood-of-talking-britain-down

and those with gold plated pensions and inherited wealth will do fine too, I believe ;)

RedToothBrush on Mumsnet posted this gem-

Conor McGinn MP @ConorMcGinn
Proof perhaps that most of the wit & wisdom in the House of Commons is to be found outside the Chamber... in this case on the 2nd floor of Portcullis House. I tip my hat to you sir/madam!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3307957-Westministenders-Simple-Solutions-for-Complex-Tasks-Never-Work?pg=19

in Portcullis House

“I used to worry that something bad would happen, now I worry that something catastrophic will happen.” This is how a Cabinet minister sums up the new political crisis facing the Conservative party – and soon the country.

inews.co.uk/opinion/columnists/theresa-may-brexit-survival/

I really don't mind if something catastrophic happens to the Conservative Party, after all they caused this brexitshambles chaos, but I do mind if something catastrophic happens to the country - which is our country, our children's country, our grandchildren's country, and most of us never asked for this and do not deserve this catastrophe.

Airbus bosses are furious after the Government spurred them to publish a dire forecast of the impact of Brexit before handing a prize £2bn RAF contract to US rival Boeing without a competition.

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/07/14/airbus-fury-loss-raf-deal-brexit-warning/

The way this bonkers brexit government has now stooped to punishing businesses whose leaders tell the truth reminds me of the way Thatcher deliberately shut down huge segments of British industry to punish the unions in the 1980s.

These politicians do not care how much damage they do to our country as long as their idealogical ends are served.

inews.co.uk/news/business/airbus-rivals-confirm-commitment-uk-investment/

www.boeing.co.uk/boeing-in-the-uk/boeing-sheffield.page

Is it still bomkers varian?

This government certainly is bonkers- no idea why anyone is still defending them and their constant U turns, concessions to the extremists and lack of any direction. Now we are told that the "benefits of Brexit" wont be apparent for at least 50 years! Thats us ( and our children and grandchildren) royally stuffed then.

Jeremy Corbyn has said Labour would be willing to consider extending the Brexit transition, which is due to end in December 2020. Asked about the Irish government’s suggestion that article 50, which says the UK will leave the EU on 29 March next year, might need to be extended (see 10.03am), Corbyn replied:
What we have said is there should be a transition period, and that was eventually supported and accepted. Quite clearly it might be necessary to ensure that goes on a bit longer.

The transition period was agreed by the government and the EU, and it is not in Corbyn’s power to extend it. But given that Theresa May does not have a majority, the stance of Labour on this issue could become significant. Tory Brexiters would strongly oppose any attempt to extend the transition, but many people in Brussels think that this will become necessary.

www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/jul/25/brexit-uk-cannot-afford-not-to-have-a-deal-says-irish-government-politics-live