Adult Son and money

All opinions welcome. Please keep them coming. Talking with husband re all this.

I would say you are doing your son a disservice by helping him now, because each time is a step further down a road that is incredibly hard to get back from.

You're sticking a plaster over the situation, which is our natural reaction, the first few times, perhaps.

SecondhandRose

He is currently furloughed. He is nocturnal and generally gets out of bed around 5pm. He spends his time playing online games. He comes out of his room for only a couple of hours a day.

He clearly has an issue with his mental health but also he is on the spectrum (undiagnosed) which is becoming more and more apparent as he gets older and wasnt noticeable when he was younger. He doesn’t go out, doesnt exercise and uses his bedroom floor as a rubbish bin.

Time to send him for an evaluation.

He sounds more manipulative than dealing with MH issues

SecondhandRose

We are unfortunately between the devil and the deep. He is 25, has no qualifications that will get him a well paid job. He is very bright but was unable to complete University as he couldn’t concentrate. We cant throw him out.

He has a younger sister. She is the complete opposite of him, younger, earns plenty of money but is horribly verbally abusive to us. She lives 3 hours away.

You can throw him out.

Does his sister get upset with you for any (perceived or real) inequities in how you parent him?

Time he moved out and you stop enabling him.

He has been a walk in the park compared to her which I suppose is why we enable him. None of this is easy.

Our daughter who incidentally is 4 years younger than her brother has accused us of abusing her amongst other things. She twists what you say to her. She has had a physically and mentally abusive boyfriend that she kept going back to time and time again. This she preferred to her family. If she doesn’t like what you say she puts the phone down. To be honest as I am currently fighting stage 3 cancer it’s easier if she keeps away from us.

I’m with geekesse on this and I suspect you are being hoodwinked.

You have been frank about finances and say he is back at work. What does he do? What’s his take home pay? How much does he owe and what are his assets? Not just the value of the cryptocurrency but what else does he have? Make him balance his books even if he has to sell his assets to pay off debts.

You say he had counselling. What did that comprise and what was the outcome? Is he really on the autistic spectrum or is it something you are guessing at because of his home habits? Sadly, staying in a bedroom for hours playing computer games is what a lot of young men do. These are as addictive as the gambling he is doing. Both of those activities require concentration so to say he couldn’t concentrate at university doesn’t quite fit. What was he studying and when did he quit that?

SecondhandRose

I have a dear friend with a 36 year old son living at home, he has never worked, is nocturnal, obsessed by computer games and in the past has had a heavy skunk habit.
My friend and her late husband never confronted any of the issues and enabled him to live this way.
He doesn’t communicate, doesn’t help in any way yet my friend defends him.

He knows his mother is terrified he harms himself, he has her over a barrel.

Please don’t allow this to happen to you.

I think it can be an element of both things.

Parents tiptoe around a sensitive adult child, who then begins to realise that it is a way to avoid things, even if only at a subconscious level.
If not dealt with by boundaries, these issues grow.

OP

What does your dd say? Her words, her comments

You’re making excuses for him. He must pay back the money-why should he keep it?

You need to be tough. If he doesn’t like the rules in your house, he leaves and finds his own place.

Conversely, I know someone who shrugged, decided she could afford to keep her son and his bad habits, and he would grow out of it.

And he did.

He is in a stable relationship, has 3 children, and works hard.

He is acting like he is because you are letting him. Lock up the Bank of Mum and Dad. Tell him to pay the rent or move out.

If he doesn't, change the locks and leave his belongings on the doorstop in black bags

My son is 35 and has been a constant headache for years. Oddly, he now tells me he deals in cryptocurrency too and the way he talks he makes out he's a millionaire.
When he was younger than your son my ex and myself would no longer give him a home. He became homeless and joined the occupy movement just so he could get free meals and a tent. He has never held down a job and now has an 8 month old daughter and is holed up with his partner, her 19 year old son and a small baby. He is learning fast and we are repairing our fractured relationship very slowly.
My son is a user of people- not easy to accept as a parent but I faced the truth and so must you.

Secondhandrose. It is time to put yourself and your health at the forefront of your life. Let your children look after themselves.

It is strange with children. Every child inherits a random selection of genes from both parents. Sometimes this produces children who seem to be trouble free, other times the mix is such that there are problems from day one.

I think you will find that a CCJ is attached to a person and not an address. It’s an urban myth that an address will be ‘blacklisted’.

Firstly, I’d like to say that I have every sympathy with the dilemma you’re in, and it is a dilemma.

There are so many overlapping issues that it is not going to be easy to tease a way through them, but for your sake, and for your son’s I would suggest that you do need to address the problems head on.

If you are able to catch him at a time when you are feeling calm, and with the support of your husband I would sit him down and say that you are aware that he is now financially able to support himself. With that in mind you would like to give him 4/6/8 week’s notice to find other accommodation as you and your husband need to focus on dealing with your health issues.

Don’t make it about him, but about what your needs are.

If he leaves your home it will be less stressful to then tackle him about those areas of his life that have become problematic. But a word of warning; you mention that your son occasionally gambles and that he deals in cryptocurrency (in itself a form of gambling) - I currently have a client in a similar situation and have a had a steep learning curve in discovering how much of an addiction that can be.

Our daughter isnt an issue currently. Why she has so much aggression we dont know. She visited a couple of months back and wanted me to watch a movie about a woman who dies of cancer. When I said I didn’t want to watch that sort of movie (as I have stage 3 cancer) she flounced off and said the film isnt about you! Unable to understand how I felt about it.

What are everyone’s thoughts on whether he should be paying back the £8k from the cryptocurrency.

SecondhandRose

What are everyone’s thoughts on whether he should be paying back the £8k from the cryptocurrency.

I think that's something for later SecondhandRose I would concentrate on getting him settled in a place of his own with a clear understanding that will be the end of the financial help you can offer. I think he should make an effort to repay the money at some point but that's unrealistic now.

OP

I would concentrate on what you can do, not what other people can do.

What can you do right now to make it all better?

I feel that once you lend money to anyone be prepared to never see its return. I have a brother very like your son. He is living off my mum at the age of 59. He has never taken responsibility for his life, never went to university, despite being clever and mum and dad got him out of financial trouble at least three times. He doesn't pay a penny to mum yet has a better pension every month than I do. Mum refuses to approach any of this with him. I have no respect for him and a very detached relationship with mum because of him. Is this the scenario you want in your life? Because this could well be what happens.

There are lots of elements to the various parts of your situation and I think you are struggling to see the wood for the trees! So, unpicking things a little bit from the information you have given:

1. Your own situation and your needs - a calm home where you can feel safe and relaxed? support with dealing with your illness - emotional and physical support? ....what else?

- So what do YOU need to happen to facilitate YOUR needs, not anyone else's, yours!! What can you do to make those things that you need happen?

2. Your son's needs from your perspective - to grow up and learn to be independent?... What else?

- Within the context of what YOU need, what might you be able to do/stop doing to facilitate your son becoming an independent grown up? To facilitate other needs from your perspective?

3. Your daughter's needs from your perspective - ???

- Within the context of what YOU need, what might you be able to do/stop doing to facilitate your daughter's needs. from your perspective?

Once you have considered those elements start thinking about YOUR actions ...those are the things that YOU can do, not what you think others should/could do! Plan out how you are going to achieve what you need in your home; what you need to do/say to others to achieve those things for yourself

All of the above probably looks simplistic and unaware of the realities of the difficult conversations and actions that may be necessary. But until you clearly acknowledge what you are trying to get to for yourself and what is needed to get there, then I think you will struggle to see the wood for the trees!!

Once you have an end plan you can start to work out the steps towards that end plan and the conversations that need to happen etc. But be careful not to block the planning stage by rejecting things because they might be difficult or painful or whatever! if you do that then nothing will change!

PM me if you would like some suggestions about approaches etc once you have a plan.

The cancer movie example is very unfortunate. Was she aware of your circumstances then?

What other examples can you give us? Trying to get the full picture

Yes she was well aware. I was diagnosed last July. She has barely acknowledged it. No card, call, flowers. If mentioned she says you’ll be fine. She seems to have an issue with empathy.