Retirement Apartments

aonk

DD and I have discussed this. She understands the problems which may occur after the owner dies but told me that if I wanted or needed to move to one of these complexes she would be happy to see me in a safe environment.

There is absolutely no way l would buy one of these with the possibility of leaving my children with the horrendous financial consequences and stress.

OldFrill

aonk

DD and I have discussed this. She understands the problems which may occur after the owner dies but told me that if I wanted or needed to move to one of these complexes she would be happy to see me in a safe environment.

There is absolutely no way l would buy one of these with the possibility of leaving my children with the horrendous financial consequences and stress.

I think this highlights quite a difference in how people view later life. Of course, none of us wants to leave our families with financial worries, and wanting to pass something on to our children often comes from a place of love. But I sometimes wonder whether, in trying so hard to preserve what we can for the next generation, we risk sacrificing too much of our own comfort, security and independence along the way.

In our family, the priority has always been to do what we can to remain independent for as long as possible, while recognising that we will all need help from time to time. I would hope that my family would rather see me living comfortably and making choices that suit my needs than struggling unnecessarily to preserve an inheritance.

We really did fancy these, but having seen and heard horror stories around absolutely ott service fees and what happens when both or single occupants die, don’t think I’d ever consider it now.

Around here there are loads of retirement apartments and they have mostly lost a lot of value in the last few years. It's easy to search on RightMove and see the property sale history. One I've just looked at sold for £365k in 2022 and is now on the market at £290k. Others are similar drops. Quite surprising, given that it is a wealthy area and "normal" property prices are still rising.

DaisyAnneReturns

OldFrill

aonk

DD and I have discussed this. She understands the problems which may occur after the owner dies but told me that if I wanted or needed to move to one of these complexes she would be happy to see me in a safe environment.

There is absolutely no way l would buy one of these with the possibility of leaving my children with the horrendous financial consequences and stress.

I think this highlights quite a difference in how people view later life. Of course, none of us wants to leave our families with financial worries, and wanting to pass something on to our children often comes from a place of love. But I sometimes wonder whether, in trying so hard to preserve what we can for the next generation, we risk sacrificing too much of our own comfort, security and independence along the way.

In our family, the priority has always been to do what we can to remain independent for as long as possible, while recognising that we will all need help from time to time. I would hope that my family would rather see me living comfortably and making choices that suit my needs than struggling unnecessarily to preserve an inheritance.

I agree with that.
I did all I could to ensure my very elderly Mum could remain at home as long as possible. Wet room, stair lift, cleaner twice a week, taking her shopping, ensuring she had emergency ready meals, and staying at our house every weekend etc.

When she got too frail and started having lots of falls I visited 14 care homes before I found the right one. She had to sell her house to pay the care home bills but I was 100% sure she was getting the best care possible and she was very happy. I visited her and also took her out every other day.

She lived to nearly 98. I know people who will stop their loved ones home being sold and insist they stay “home alone” as they would lose what they consider is their inheritance but any right minded person would not consider this as they could fall and break a hip and lay there all night in agony.

My parents are both 97, and still living at home, with a huge amount of support. My mum in particular would never countenance going into care, she is as stubborn as a mule. Their children would all like them to, we are all comfortably off, we don’t need their money, and to be honest it would be a huge weight off our shoulders if they did. However, we bend over backwards to accommodate their wishes, money is nothing to do with it.

I don’t think the not moving into a retirement home is about preserving inheritance for our children, we simply don’t wish to burden them then with a property that might not sell for a co year and cause them to have huge monthly costs.

I know all retirements properties have different “selling” rules.

We might change our minds, things might change, we are 68 and 70 atm

My Mum was at home til she died at 86. We too did all we could to keep her safe and happy.

She adamantly refused to even contemplate living in residential care, though could easily have done so, despite being very physically “disabled”, she was of sound mind and a very determined and strong lady

Living alone in a 3 bed semi which is a tad too big for me to manage, I have considered a retirement type apartment (though I'm still working), I'm aware there are service charges, but do you have to pay Council tax on top also ?......[hmmm]

My parents bought a retirement flat and I see both the benefits and disadvantages. From my parents point of view when they moved in they were only mid 60s and did not need any help. However they were able to buy a nice flat in a lovely area, much nicer than the area they left. They were comfortable and very safe with no money worries.
Ten years later my Mum had died unexpectedly and my Dad became very elderly and helpless overnight. My siblings and I were there every day but were very glad that the lovely site manager gave him a little call every morning to check he was ok. Also there were pull cords in each room in case of emergency.
When my Dad died three years later we did find the flat hard to sell and sold it at a loss. On top of that the ongoing service charges and sinking fund contribution which had to be paid ate up much of the sale proceeds. I am glad to say my parents were oblivious to this and thought they were leaving us a fortune.
So while it was stressful once they had passed we were very glad they were comfortable, safe and happy there so have no regrets at all.
But would we buy one now?. No we wouldn’t but I would definitely consider renting.

Primrose53

DaisyAnneReturns

OldFrill

aonk

DD and I have discussed this. She understands the problems which may occur after the owner dies but told me that if I wanted or needed to move to one of these complexes she would be happy to see me in a safe environment.

There is absolutely no way l would buy one of these with the possibility of leaving my children with the horrendous financial consequences and stress.

I think this highlights quite a difference in how people view later life. Of course, none of us wants to leave our families with financial worries, and wanting to pass something on to our children often comes from a place of love. But I sometimes wonder whether, in trying so hard to preserve what we can for the next generation, we risk sacrificing too much of our own comfort, security and independence along the way.

In our family, the priority has always been to do what we can to remain independent for as long as possible, while recognising that we will all need help from time to time. I would hope that my family would rather see me living comfortably and making choices that suit my needs than struggling unnecessarily to preserve an inheritance.

I agree with that.
I did all I could to ensure my very elderly Mum could remain at home as long as possible. Wet room, stair lift, cleaner twice a week, taking her shopping, ensuring she had emergency ready meals, and staying at our house every weekend etc.

When she got too frail and started having lots of falls I visited 14 care homes before I found the right one. She had to sell her house to pay the care home bills but I was 100% sure she was getting the best care possible and she was very happy. I visited her and also took her out every other day.

She lived to nearly 98. I know people who will stop their loved ones home being sold and insist they stay “home alone” as they would lose what they consider is their inheritance but any right minded person would not consider this as they could fall and break a hip and lay there all night in agony.

It's not about leaving an inheritance, it's about leaving a legacy that could cost your children thousands of pounds a year. It can be impossible to sell these leasehold flats and whoever inherits is liable for all service charges, maintenance, and possibly double council tax. Even dropping to a rock bottom price won't sell the property, and many which have managed to sell end up selling at such a low price they are tens of thousands of pounds out of pocket.

If course you can refuse an inheritance but you have to be clued up in advance as to how to do that and act swiftly.

These sad stories of grieving children sinking deeper into debt due to inheriting their parents' leasehold property are all over the media. If l don't leave my children a penny so be it but l would totally avoid leaving them a legacy if such substantial debt and stress

Families' debt 'nightmare' as thousands of retirement flats stand empty - BBC News www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgykp79ezyo

Cossy

My Mum was at home til she died at 86. We too did all we could to keep her safe and happy.

She adamantly refused to even contemplate living in residential care, though could easily have done so, despite being very physically “disabled”, she was of sound mind and a very determined and strong lady

I think there’s a hidden issue in parents living in their own homes until very old age, which should also be part of the equation. The maintenance and repairs needed to keep your own house in good condition become a massive headache. My parents are unable to cope with any disruption or organise anything for themselves, so that falls to us, but when we aren’t there, if there is a power cut, or the stairlift fails, or the toilet blocks, they don’t have the wherewithal. Living in a retirement flat would take all those worries away.

Aveline

Not all retirement flats are leasehold or managed in the same way.

They're not. I agree.

I would also say that some people have an unreasonable expectation when they come to sell.

Casdon

My parents are both 97, and still living at home, with a huge amount of support. My mum in particular would never countenance going into care, she is as stubborn as a mule. Their children would all like them to, we are all comfortably off, we don’t need their money, and to be honest it would be a huge weight off our shoulders if they did. However, we bend over backwards to accommodate their wishes, money is nothing to do with it.

Agreed, Casdon. My MIL lived at hime until she was 100, which is what she wanted. She had support from her three children and their partners, as well as carers towards the end.

We sorted out a stair lift and took care of maintenance, gardening and general admin. She got two or three visits every day from family, as well as the carers to do more personal things (she absolutely refused to have any of us do them).

In her 101st year she insisted on going into care, and we organised that. It was all done to make her as comfortable as possible and to give her as much independence as possible for as long as possible, and to allow her to make decisions about her own life herself.

I think we are all 'right thinking' people with her best interests at heart. Not everything is about money.

DaisyAnneReturns

Aveline

Not all retirement flats are leasehold or managed in the same way.

They're not. I agree.

I would also say that some people have an unreasonable expectation when they come to sell.

The OP refers to the TV programme last night which covered the potential problems with leasehold retirement flats.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to be able to sell, the problem occurs when you can't sell to cover expenses and are left £ x 1000s out of pocket.

Did you watch the programme.

DaisyAnneReturns

Aveline

Not all retirement flats are leasehold or managed in the same way.

They're not. I agree.

I would also say that some people have an unreasonable expectation when they come to sell.

What do you mean by an unreasonable expectation and how do you know what is expected?

Sounds as though the financial model needs to be revised so that only basic maintenance and building insurance is payable on vacant flats. I suppose this may mean a higher service charge for inhabited flats.

In many cases these apartments with support will keep people out of costly care homes for two or three years making it a bit swings and roundabouts.

What would happen if a deceased person’s assets were wholly exhausted before an apartment was sold?

I sold my four-bedroom house with large front and back gardens, and moved into a rented retirement flat my son found for me. Help is available if needed (I have a cleaner but nothing else), also meals are provided if you want them. I have lunch, but get my other meals myself. It suits me very well, and I’m relieved not to have the responsibility of maintaining a property any longer. I’m 86.

I think if you live alone and cannot get about as you did, you would be lonely, then a retirement home despite the drawbacks when you die, would be preferable than struggling alone. I know a few people whose family are always helping with hospital visits, odd day out or lunch, they feel very much part of the family still. Many are not.
I very much doubt the family left would be responsible for debts if assets were exhausted, would think it would just transfer back to whoever owns the lease and they would resell, but not sure.

I watched the programme on ITV about retirement properties with interest and some foreboding. Older properties have always been relatively reasonably priced, but did lose value post Covid. Values are picking up again and in the development I have lived in for 9 years properties are selling. So buyers are getting a bargain and if values continue to rise, hopefully there won’t be huge losses a few years from now. Unfortunately, I can see values dropping again after this bad publicity. That is not to say that the risks shouldn’t be pointed out. In the area I live there are two sorts of private retirement property, the older ones, the development I live in was built in 1969 where can buy a two bedroom flat for £100,00. It is very well maintained and most amenities are within a 10 minute walk. The service charge is £309 a month and the ground rent is £116 twice a year which has not gone up since I moved in 9 years ago. To put this into prospective, a family house in this area would go for between £400-500,000 + leaving plenty of money, not only to have a really good retirement, but to have your flat exactly how you want it and most importantly in relation to the programme to have a fund available to your next of kin to cover all the costs if the property does take a long time to sell. Now, the second type of retirement property, the newer builds, are cropping up all over the place, prices start at about £300,000 and the service charge will start at around £3,000 a month. They are amazing, like hotels and the high service charge reflects the many amenities on site, such as hairdressers, cafe, shops and leisure activities. I should just add that I couldn’t afford one ! They do seem to be valued on the high side for their newness and therefore lose value when they become second hand. Again, if you can afford the new build you will probably have sold a family home for a substantial amount and it would be wise to have that fund of money available to the next of kin. I know this kind of communal living would not suit everyone regardless of the risks, but I have to say it was the right decision for me. I moved to be closer to family and grandchildren. I no longer have to do the garden or clean the windows. I can lockup and go and I know my home will be secure while I’m away. Importantly for me, we have social activities in the lounge and trips out occasionally. But you can also shut your own front door and keep yourself to yourself of you prefer. I’m happy for anyone to DM me if they would like to continue the conversation.

When I needed to leave my house, I did look at retirement flats. Found them all very small (compact??), tiny kitchens, no room for personal washing machine, all had a launderette room for use by residents.

This would have been no good for me. Due to a medical problem I very occasionally, do need to strip bed, and myself and wash everything. Like to do that in the privacy of my own home.

Having looked at several of these flats, I then looked at ordinary purpose built flats in the same area. What a difference! These (on the whole) were much more roomy, much less to pay on maintenance charges, the one I chose has its own garage (even without a car, very useful for all sorts of storage.).

Well, you can guess which way I went. So for the past seven years have lived in this lovely block of 25 flats. All owner-occupied - no chance of any anti-social behavior. Self managed by an elected committee of flat owners, so no payment to any private company. Very central, - within ten minutes (walking or on my mobility scooter), I can get to beach, park, library, museum, theatres, cinemas, station, shops, buses etc.etc.

For social activities and meeting people, I have joined local u3a and also coffee mornings arranged by other organisations. Getting out to these is important in itself.

When a flat needs to sold, it goes through the normal process with any local agent, no monies from the sale are payable to our Management Company, although - obviously, while it is empty service charges still have to be paid. All the flats are good sizes, all have an en-suite as well as a second bathroom, large Living/dining room, good sized kitchen and two bedrooms.

We do have the occasional afternoon tea party in our large and beautifully kept entrance lobby.

There are major changes to leasehold legislation crawling through parliament, laws should be passed late 2028. Retirement properties will be covered (despite desperate lobbying from McCarthy &Stone etc).

OldFrill
Well they would, wouldn’t they 😥

Petra - yes, but doesn't look like they'll get their way. Although I'm sure they'll recoup any losses by another means ☹️

The OP refers to the TV programme last night which covered the potential problems with leasehold retirement flats.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to be able to sell, the problem occurs when you can't sell to cover expenses and are left £ x 1000s out of pocket.

But you can sell. You need to understand that the market is smaller and prices doesn't grow in the same way but this would be the same if you held them under Commonhold or Right to Manage.

The common areas, including the outside of the building have to be managed somehow. People think they can get the same price hikes for the whole of the housing market at the same time. This was never true but that has but that has never stopped people whinging.