An Attitude of Gratitude & Depression

When I was deeply, desperately depressed I was truly grateful of everything I had. I counted my blessings and there were many, however I struggled to live each day.

I can only compare it to feeling extremely cold, or sick ... you can appreciate all you have but still find it difficult to want to carry on.

Sweetie, may I ask what dragged you out of that dark place?

“This systematic review aims to investigate neurobiological changes related to cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) in anxiety disorders detected through neuroimaging techniques and to identify predictors of response to treatment. Cognitive-behavioral therapy modified the neural circuits involved in the regulation of negative emotions and fear extinction in judged treatment responders. The only study on predictors of response to treatment was regarding obsessive-compulsive disorder and showed higher pretreatment regional metabolic activity in the left orbitofrontal cortex associated with a better response to behavioral therapy. Despite methodological limitations, neuroimaging studies revealed that CBT was able to change dysfunctions of the nervous system.”

- www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19622682

Would the same sort of advice be given to someone with diabetes? Someone whose pancreas is not regulating their insulin production effectively. I don't think so.

If depression is caused by incorrect/inadequate production of serotonin - no amount of "happy clappy" therapy/gratitude diaries and the like is going to redress that imbalance.

Where I live, on the Surrey/Hants border, I always hear people thank the bus driver when alighting the vehicle, so to say that it's mostly a Northern thing is tosh. I hear it in supermarkets (mostly Waitrose,M&S) and Tesco) and in cafes and other shops. Doors opened to allow others to pass through and young and older men letting women board buses first.

Charles Kingsley in his book The Water Babies had Mrs "Do as you would be done by" and Mrs"Be done by as you did".

I don't think OP or anyone is really suggesting that this technique alone or with other interventions will work in a situation where a person is so very ill with depression.

For me I have a problem with catchy headlines/tag lines.

The article uses the term "Depression" as a cover all term and as many of us know "Depression" is a miss used, over used term and I feel the term is not correctly used in this case.

That said, I still think there is some value in the practice of "Gratitude" or finding a "Personal Positive".

When drug treatment and/or other therapies are needed this technique won't bring about a major change and here on GN we are experienced enough to know that. Smart enough to see through the hype.

However, finding anything to be grateful for and anchoring that gratitude can't hurt and in certain circumstances can help.

If only the practice helps us find a moment or two of light in the darkness or if we make finding a positive a practice so we learn how to have a little light in the darkness when we need it most.

Even with other treatments when there is very little we can do, we can do this.

Problem is when "Depression" has it's claws in deep this may well be a task too far.

But I think there is value in teaching young people (and reminding ourselves at any age) to look for the "good/positive/gratitude" in life, in situations, in people we care about and to notice the ways we are cared for and people who care about us.

Anything that helps anyone stay out of the Hell Hole or helps to build steps out of it gets a thumbs up from me so I'm pleased there's studies to show something helps some people in some circumstances.

And it's taken me so long to put this together I'm almost certainly repeating what has already been said.

Be Kind - we never really know what another soul is going through.

Let's face it the Mail is hardly known for its thorough research and critical thinking. A few weeks ago we were told that antidepressants were addictive.

I agree with those who,ve said that real depression is not easily fixed. I think unless you have experienced it yourself (and I have) it’s very difficult to understand.
You have no joy in life, everything is blank, you can hardly move, can’t answer the phone, can’t go out shopping, can’t speak at length. It is an awful time.
It’s also hard for those who care, to know how to handle it, what to do or say, or not to say. But it does take months to recover, there is no quick fix. Sadly.

The headline refers to depression, but the article is about some research that was nothing to do with depression. Typical Daily Mail clickbait.
They knew if their headline went on about some research that associated an attitude of gratefulness in teenagers with improved eating habits, no one would read it. But put in the magic word ‘depression’ and everyone immediately relates to it, because even if they’re not suffering from depression themselves, they know someone who is.

tigger Would the same sort of advice be given to someone with diabetes? Someone whose pancreas is not regulating their insulin production effectively. I don't think so.

But what if CBT did actually work like that?
Training yourself to observe in your life all the things you have to be grateful for, and expressing your gratitude, is a form of CBT.
Someone with diabetes is given insulin to make up the deficiency caused by their non-functioning pancreas.
What if CBT, or feeling grateful, actually stimulated the brain to make that feel-good substance, serotonin?

there is a website, gratefulness.org founded by Benedictine monk david steidl-rast he wrote a book with the same name ,very thoughtful stuff. I think saying 'thank you ' when we are in a good general state of mind can only be positive.steindl-rast talks that if we are are in a place of deep misery, then no amount of gratefulness will be of any use!

oldbatty,most antidepressants are addictive. Painkillers too.I've watched patients who try to come off their medication and it's akin to drug addicts coming off drugs with symptoms that are far worse than before they were put on the drugs Also depression returns with a vengeance.

It's always better with any medication to reduce the dosage in stages ( to wean off ) than to stop them altogether. Antidepressants usually take about 6 weeks before you feel the full benefit. It's a bit of a hit and miss area of treatment as it depends on the reason/type of depression to treat so background information is always necessary in order for the medication to fit the source.

www.addictioncenter.com/stimulants/antidepressants/

I'm rather sad that we are discussing saying thank you. I do it automatically and my children do too. I can't think of a situation where I could thank someone that I don't already do so. How is this theory going to help those of us who already think thanking is normal? Do people really need to be taught this?

I read that smiling, or simply stretching your face using the same muscles as smiling, released feel good hormones in the brain. You don't have to be happy to do it. You don't have to see it in a mirror either. You can Google it if you don't believe it. Apparently, smiling (or faking a smile) releases dopamine and serotonin. Don't jump on me because I've never suffered from depression! The word is out there.

Totally agree with Nonnie

Following on from the comment by allsortsofbags on another thread, has anyone done the online course called The Science of Happiness from edX in the US? They have done plenty of genuine research and recommend keeping a gratitude journal to increase positivity and happiness. I have done it and it actually works! along with their other Three Good Things exercise. Lots more on the Greater Good web site and links below:

ggia.berkeley.edu/practice/three-good-things

ggia.berkeley.edu/practice/gratitude_journal

greatergood.berkeley.edu/

I've watched patients who try to come off their medication and it's akin to drug addicts coming off drugs with symptoms that are far worse than before they were put on the drugs Also depression returns with a vengeance

Can I politely ask if you are a doctor ?

I think when someone is so depressed that just 'being' is too much, they're not very likely to start keeping a gratitude journal.

I think the whole "positive thinking movenent" can be harmful in some cases.

Sometimes it is important to acknowledge and feel "negative" emotions. Eg if working through grief. And a lot of fear is justified and if you listen to your "oo this does not feel right" feelings that can keep you safe.

The more organised "fake it till you make it" philosophies are not that healthy IMO, and some just outright victim blame!: "if you had BELIEVED enough it would have happened"

oldbatty,most antidepressants are addictive. Painkillers too.I've watched patients who try to come off their medication and it's akin to drug addicts coming off drugs with symptoms that are far worse than before they were put on the drugs Also depression returns with a vengeance.

It is true that there is not always sufficient information and support re weaning off antidepressants. Many people are just left on repeat prescription indefinately until they either have a bash at stopping by themselves (bad idea) or go and seek help to come off.

Information about coming OFF antidepressants should be given in advance when people go ON them so that they know what to do when the time comes (and some people are better off taking them for life but that should also be actively discussed by HCPs along the way)

But "antidepressants are addictive" is simplistic and dangerous scaremongering.

oldbatty a retired nurse.

lizzypopbottle It’s also true that if you are feeling tense or apprehensive, consciously relaxing your facial muscles will relax the rest of your body.
Mental relaxation follows physical relaxation. It’s the first stage in self -hypnosis.

The whole "gratitude" thing can also severely harm people in severe mental health crisis

People with mental health issues often have a lot on paper to be grateful for (money, family, friends, career etc) and the idea that having a mental health crisis somehow = not being grateful for your loved ones etc can just make a person feel 10 times worse about themselves

I just wrote out a huge long missive, but then I thought "what's the bleeding point?".