Reducing contact because my heart just isn't in it.

It's on my mind because I know it will come up before the end of the year - and here we are in September (essentially). I will be firm and direct. If I choose to explain anything, it will be brief and statement, rather than discussion. I'm not leaving room to argue or discuss (which will involve my mother trying to impose her reality on mine, to one that suits her better, which is part of many of the issues we've had).

We'll see how it goes. I'm just at the stage where I can tell they have noticed, my mother has made a comment aimed at returning things to where she likes it, and I'll been able to deflect it easily.

I'll cross that bridge when I come to it and see what feels right at the time that's the best approach lovethepuppies. You need to be able to benefit from the peace you've found and giving emotional energy to possible future scenarios will only impact on that.

They may never come to terms with this 'new normal' but as long as you hold firm to the choices you've made and continue to benefit from them, that's all that really matters and you're not alone. You have the love, support and understanding from your husband which is priceless.

Be honest and direct with them but also firm.

Say that you are no longer seeing them to protect your peace and that it's not up for discussion.

When she plays dumb and tries to gaslight you just repeat that it's not up for dicussion and eventually exit the conversation if she doesn't promptly drop it. I wouldn't even mention the fact that you discussed with her before how she made you feel. It won't accomplish anything and it would only give her more venues to whittle you down.

It's completely okay if they think you are being unfair, cold, ungrateful and whatever other terms come to mind that can guilt you back into the fold. Even if she acts otherwise, she knows what she has done and you have given her more than enough chances to change.

The only reason to have a discussion anyway is to change a behavior, and she has proven that isn't going to happen in this life.

Even though they come from different angles, I agree with all the posts from you all since my last one, even where they differ.

I've only posted one very specific situation that would identify me to my mother. No-one outside me and my parents know about it (I don't even think my sister knows). Anything else is quite generic. If my mother knows it's her, that's fine. She can be clued into the impact of it all and feel however she feels.

Violetvelvet is right that negative feelings were never allowed. They were 'wrong', 'not that bad', or 'being difficult'. I have, for quite some time, rejected that. I rejected that approach with my own children who were allowed to have feelings, had them validated and taken seriously. The only good thing I can say about my experience in the other direction is that it made me aware of how important this was for my children. I know they appreciate that.

You're all right that it's about finding peace. You've all helped me towards that. Right now, I do feel peace about the path I have chosen. I talked some more to my husband about things today and the long list of reasons not to see them in person. When it's listed like that, it's much easier to see clearly and feel okay about it.

My mother does try to have the control in situations and how they should be and will be. She doesn't anymore. I have been good about standing up to her over the years, it's just been more situational before rather than an absolute line, like it is now.

I think the reason this is still hanging over me is that it's not the new normal on their end yet. I can see they have noticed I'm not calling. I did shut it down when my mother wanted me to call. At some point they are likely to suggest a visit to us. I will say no. I think until that has happened and that line has been drawn as well, it's not a closed chapter yet.

Other than waiting for that to happen, I do feel at peace and better by the day. This is a good 'new normal' for me. I think it comes at the right time for me to feel okay about it too.

The only thing I'm still not sure about is when they ask why I'm saying no to an in person visit, do I tell them (not discuss, because there's room for denial there, just inform)? Or just tell them it doesn't work for a range of reasons and leave it at that? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it and see what feels right at the time.

Violetvelvet it seems to me lovethepuppies has or is fast becoming her own woman. This means she must act as she sees fit for herself and her family. There is no harm in keeping the door open for her parents, however, provided she has no unrealistic expectations. Lovethepuppies I hope you know where you are going now. Don’t get angry, don’t let them stir emotions in you any longer. Quietly take control and enjoy you r life.

I am beginning to think that it won't and I refuse to pick a side but I feel at peace if that decision is taken from me because I do know I have done things right from all the support here.

I can understand that InRainbows. We learned to enjoy the peace that being estranged by our youngest son ultimately brought us.

I hope that the situation with your sister improves though.

I don't understand why anyone who has read this thread from the beginning wants to try and pour cold water on the decisions that lovethepuppies has made, unless it's because they themselves are estranged and can't stand the thought of anyone not taking the estrangement route they've taken.

I have to say, I have never labelled my sister as anything but she has decided not to speak to me at present because she is angry at me and I must say, I am enjoying the peace.

"However, maybe it won't hurt for her to see some of the impact of it all?"

We all deserve parents who love and protect us, but that just wasn't in the cards for you.

Whatever little hope you have left for the relationship with your mother is doing you no good and is a clear sign that you still have room for more healing.

Your mother didn't care how you felt when you were being hit as a child, she certainly won't care how you feel now.

I know giving up hope is much easier said than done, so if you must see for yourself, share with your mother what you shared here so that there is no part of you left wondering about "maybes" and "what ifs".

If you haven't yet, get some therapy. People with those kinds of difficult childhoods develop the same PTSD symptoms as soldiers who fought in a war.

You'll know you're healing when your emotions start matching reality. Feeling any amount of hope completely goes against your long-lived reality, its an irrational feeling to have. What you need to feel is anger. Anger is the appropriate emotion for someone in your situation.

They likely conditioned you to not feel angry when you absolutely should have been angry. Just because anger is a negative emotion doesn't automatically make it bad. It's actually very important as it helps you recognize that something is wrong. Your dad hitting you is wrong. Your mom enabling him is wrong.

Feeling any amount of hope that they can change is bad for you in the long run. Not only does it leave room for them to dissapoint you again, but it delays your much needed healing process.

When I first started posting here about our estrangement,
Mr. S. was concerned that I could be identified because of specific incidents I mentioned, but it's never worried me because it's all true.

If there's the slightest possibility that she would see or be told about your posts, and seeing in 'black and white' the impact this has had on you that that could improve your relationship, it would be a good thing.

I understand why you can't see that as a possibility though which is why what you're doing is so important.

Finding a way to move forward which is healthy for you and your family is paramount. It takes time to discover what that way is and courage to implement it.

We can find ourselves doing things we never thought we would or could and whether you're estranging, going low contact or have been estranged, the goal is the same; to find peace and happiness in the lives we have .

Smileless2012

^does it really matter^ not really, as long as you don't allow anything to change the direction you've chosen to take.

Thanks Smileless. I think that situation is so specific my mother would know if it was me. However, maybe it won't hurt for her to see some of the impact of it all? I find it hard to see how we come back at this point.

I hope you are having a lovely weekend. :-)

does it really matter not really, as long as you don't allow anything to change the direction you've chosen to take.

DiamondLily

lovethepuppies

Smileless2012

Behaviour can be toxic without the perpetrator being inherently toxic or malicious User, so if lovethepuppies says her mother isn't toxic, she's in a far better position to say so then you are to suggest that she is.

Few people are all bad. My mother has done some shocking behaviours, yet she visited regularly, was generous with my children, would be there in a real emergency. I do know some of her generous moves were to meet her own needs (will spare the details). She has some issues for sure, which I don't think she has the awareness of herself, but there are the nice times, the conversations we can share about our gardens, that sort of thing. I think it's partly a hormonal thing on my part that I just don't have the energy to be managing those issues at this point in time, which is why it's come to a head now. It just took a trigger event to bring everything to a head for me.

My late mother was the same. Absolutely could not connect with me emotionally, although no abuse and good with the practical stuff . She drove me nuts. I was her problem without actually doing anything to be one,😂. She never had a good word for or about me. To be fair here, I could be a stroppy mare though. 😉

I was thinking of estranging her when I was 18 and getting married for the first time.

But, I held fire, and once I had my kids, she was the best granny they could ever have had. And again, with her GG kids. They all loved her to bits, as she did them.

She and I reached a calm agreement that we’d never denigrate each other, to the children. It worked. 👍

My (now middle aged) kids will never know my true feelings about her. No need. The past is done. Can’t be changed, and I hold no resentments. It was what it was.

And, I don't regret not estranging her for a moment.

Sometimes, it’s all about the bigger picture.

Yes, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. It sounds like things worked out positively in your case.

My mother wasn't a bad grandmother. She didn't really babysit (which was fine) but she made an effort. I did find, however, that the children get older and make their own observations. They draw their own conclusions from that. She did actually have a difficult relationship with one of my children - mostly because she is directive and expects instant obedience, which that child wasn't so receptive of. I didn't allow that for a moment. I know my own children have recognised my mother's lack of empathy too, and I've validated them in that.

I'm aware some of what I've shared here would be recognised by my mother if she ever came across it, but does it really matter if she finds out I'm working through some stuff?

Your post resignates with me D.L.

Such a positive post DL

lovethepuppies

Smileless2012

Behaviour can be toxic without the perpetrator being inherently toxic or malicious User, so if lovethepuppies says her mother isn't toxic, she's in a far better position to say so then you are to suggest that she is.

Few people are all bad. My mother has done some shocking behaviours, yet she visited regularly, was generous with my children, would be there in a real emergency. I do know some of her generous moves were to meet her own needs (will spare the details). She has some issues for sure, which I don't think she has the awareness of herself, but there are the nice times, the conversations we can share about our gardens, that sort of thing. I think it's partly a hormonal thing on my part that I just don't have the energy to be managing those issues at this point in time, which is why it's come to a head now. It just took a trigger event to bring everything to a head for me.

My late mother was the same. Absolutely could not connect with me emotionally, although no abuse and good with the practical stuff . She drove me nuts. I was her problem without actually doing anything to be one,😂. She never had a good word for or about me. To be fair here, I could be a stroppy mare though. 😉

I was thinking of estranging her when I was 18 and getting married for the first time.

But, I held fire, and once I had my kids, she was the best granny they could ever have had. And again, with her GG kids. They all loved her to bits, as she did them.

She and I reached a calm agreement that we’d never denigrate each other, to the children. It worked. 👍

My (now middle aged) kids will never know my true feelings about her. No need. The past is done. Can’t be changed, and I hold no resentments. It was what it was.

And, I don't regret not estranging her for a moment.

Sometimes, it’s all about the bigger picture.

It's a wonderful moment when you feel that the weight you've been carrying has been lifted lovethepuppies .

Now it's about what is best for me and mine which is how is should be.

The only warped views I see here are yours User, no doubt due to your past which I'm sorry for but that doesn't excuse you persistently coming onto these threads to insult and denigrate the EP's here which does nothing to assist the OP.

User147831, family image is everything, right? Sad.

I am not prioritising their feelings. I am enjoying the freedom. I spent the first few weeks on the day I would normally call feeling a bit bad about it. Last weekend I enjoyed having the day without the interruption of the phone call in the middle of it. Today, I feel the freedom of it and I like it.

As far as I'm concerned, how it is now is how it is going to continue to be. That feels like a weight lifted and I feel good. My mother can feel however she feels and I don't feel the need to fix it for her.

It's possible that a conversation will come up at some point. I'll see how I feel then about sharing more with them but I won't be changing things or seeing them in person. Everything has always been about my mother's needs and how she wants things to be. No more. Now it's about what is best for me and mine.

"Knowing that your mum was denying the reality of your father's behaviour by blaming you for doing what you needed to do to protect yourself, makes your compassion and concern about hurting them by going low contact, even more moving."

I can see how being an estranged parent yourself could warp your view into thinking its "moving", but in reality it's quite sad that she still priotizes their feelings this much after what they have done.

Her mother didn't just deny reality, but enabled her husband's abuse. Abusers can't function without their enablers.

Not only did her parents completely fail her, but have also conditioned her to value her own feelings less (and in favor of theirs).

They gave her good reasons to go to therapy and no doubt made her life much more difficult than it ever needed to be and she is still wasting time and energy worrying about appeasing them.

On a personal tangent, I had a similar story. I acted different than the other school kids so my teachers recommended I see a child therapist. Filling out an initial paper before the visit, it asked some personal questions. One question asked how suicidal I felt, and after asking my mom what suicide meant, I filled out that I sometimes feel suicidal. My mom then reviewed all of my answers and was mortified that I wrote I sometimes felt suicidal. She erased it and changed it to "never felt suicidal". She was deathly afraid what others might think if her 7 year old child already had suicidal thoughts but didn't give a single care that I actually thought about killing myself at such a young age. This revelation didn't change her behavior at all and some years later she actually directly encouraged me to kill myself at 1 point.

Just seen your last post. I'm so pleased that you no longer feel shame; sharing does help.

Being able to share our experience as EP's dispelled my shame
too .

Thank you lovethepuppies.

Knowing that your mum was denying the reality of your father's behaviour by blaming you for doing what you needed to do to protect yourself, makes your compassion and concern about hurting them by going low contact, even more moving .

I didn't leave my kids alone with my parents at all .... reminds me of a conversation I had with our ES, before he had his first child and we were estranged.

To say his wife's childhood was dysfunctional would be an understatement and she was once again having problems with them before they got married. He told me if they had children that he didn't want them to have any contact with them.

I said if he had concerns that they could always ensure that any children were never left alone with them, because if she wanted their children to know them, it would be wrong of him to prevent it.

The bitter irony of course being that we were the ones who were estranged and have never known our only GC.

We don't always reap what we sow .

I've never told anyone that before. It carried too much shame. Sharing it means I don't feel shame anymore and can see how messed up it was. I wish I'd asked a teacher for help. Sometimes it takes a long time to be able to put things into a context and accept the shame isn't ours.

friendlygingercat, I relate to a lot of that in one way or other. I'm sorry you went through all that. It's really not fair. It is definitely true that you reap what you sow.