It's official: Grandparents are good for children

It's a humorous anecdote, but it has a more serious side to it, which is that this is what kids are missing out on when they estrange themselves from their extended family. I guess you might call it "the rich tapestry of family life" or something like that. My kids will probably never meet my adventurous uncle or their cousins in Australia, and their children will never receive cool Australian gifts like I did. And they will never know what they are missing. I guess that's their loss.

Yes I know what you mean DogWhisperer. Mr. S. has four siblings and between them there are six children so our GC have ten cousins that they'll never know in addition to us their GP's and a GGM they never met and the only uncle they'll know is DS who lives in Aus.

Did he ever discuss his motivation for moving there Dogwhisperer? Were there opportunities that weren't available here or did he need to get away from family?

Or perhaps he had many reasons that were never discussed...

InRainbows

Did he ever discuss his motivation for moving there Dogwhisperer? Were there opportunities that weren't available here or did he need to get away from family?

You know what - you've aroused my curiosity so I think I'll ask him. We have kind of lost touch with him, not because anyone estranged anyone but because we have been busy with life, people have died or moved away, and so on. So I found an old gmail address for him dating back to 2011 which I think is the last time anyone heard from him, and I sent him an email. It hasn't bounced back marked "user unknown" (yet) so if I get an answer to your question, I'll tell you.

I hope my curiosity doesn't cause any issues for you. I also have family abroad and I have never really asked them either apart from what they volunteered at the time and now I wonder if there was more to it.

I had an elderly aunt who left Ireland in the 50s and rarely came back to visit. She was quite open about her reasons. She said catholicm was too oppressive and her parents too controlling. She wanted to live her life without judgement.
She did just that and when she came back for brief visits she was unapologetic and took no criticism from anyone!

InRainbows, I am pleased to report that I have an answer to your question and it's all good. I was worried that I might have missed the boat and my uncle in Australia might be pushing up the daisies by now (he is 83) but apparently not, he is still alive and well and working on the latest edition of his law textbook. The "estrangement" story (according to my uncle) was all nonsense; he applied for a PhD scholarship at the Australian National University, went over there, he was subsequently offered a full time job at the university, got married, and the rest as they say is history. So the lesson from that is: don't believe anything about estrangement until you have heard both sides of the story.

Also, I now have an extended family in Australia in the form of two cousins and their children and partners. The Aussies seem a cheery lot and TBH I feel more like hanging out with them than with my own miserable, ungrateful, narcissistic kids, unless the latter go and get themselves personality transplants.

We will try to stay in touch from now on. All (well, mostly) thanks to GransNet.

Other gran and I were congratulating ourselves yesterday because of how well our grandson has turned out as he finishes school.
He has avoided many of the teenage disasters and had had 2 very different sets of input from the 2 grans who each had him for 2 days a week from age 1.

.

How wonderful that you've reconnected with your uncle DogWhisperer .

You did say that losing touch wasn't about estrangement but for a variety of reasons in your post of 9.06. which often happens.
I'm not comfortable with ^don't believe anything about estrangement until you have heard both sides of the story^when it comes to this forum, because we only do hear one side which is to be expected.

You must be very proud of your GS kircubbin and rightly so .

I posted a suggestion on one of the estranged kids' forums "you should listen to both sides of the story" and got a similar reaction!

I often read but rarely post but appreciate all those who take the time to post and continue threads. I spend my time hanging on a thread to fit in and see my young GC when I am allowed. They appear to adore me as much as I adore them and that seems to be the main problem/dilemma for the parents which is very sad. I have tried to evaluate the situation taking all emotion out. My general observations are that many adult children now see extended family relationships as purely transactional to pick up or drop to fit with their very busy social lives and motivated often by money and usefulness. Yes there is always a reason behind estrangement but the reason that half the estranged AC don’t tell their estranged parents why is because they know deep down there isn’t a justified or adequate reason for it. Most estranged GP will listen and adjust their behaviour if they know the cause but were unaware. The AC simply have more fun with some relatives over others, they also associate with relatives they think they will get more from and don’t have time or the interest to invest in others. That is fine for them but the GC can be the losers especially if they have a natural bond with the estranged GP and this is ignored or worse they deliberately damage that special bond. One thing is for sure, nothing stays the same, relationships change and adapt and hope and love keeps me invested. I often feel I should step back completely to avoid the constant painful gaslighting used to manipulate situations however I am aware of it now and have chosen to remain quiet, get on with my own life, try not to take it personally or become defensive and grab with both hands the few opportunities to still see my GC. I often feel my AC wants to push me enough to cause a row so they can use it to cut me off and then blame me. It is a struggle and very painful when I love my AC but have realised we both have very different ways of looking at life and family. I hope in time that we can become more respectful of our differences and that as the GC grow they are given the opportunity to receive my unconditional love and caring about their lives independently of their parents. AC who cut out GP or favour one set of GP over another may find it backfires on them when those GC become adults themselves. I spent decades disliking my mothers mother because of how she was talked about. Years later the fog lifted, my eyes opened and I relied on observations and action over gossip, I used my own brain and sadly realised how my own mother was the problem. She deprived me of that relationship and I did feel resentful towards her for that loss. As an adult I was fortunate enough to get many years of love with that GP and cared for her when she was elderly until she passed. She never once spoke badly of my mother and neither did I. I also think that GP on each side can create problems and the AC don’t know how to manage it, they can compete for ‘control’ and dominance of the GC using bribes and threats to coerce and with often several sets of GP and step GP involved I understand why some AC choose to go it alone and avoid all of them. It is a seemingly growing problem though and for those affected quite devastating.

The thing I see on here so many times is, the AC do say why they’re estranging their parents, the parents just don’t wanna believe their reasons. They “can’t remember” doing or saying what the AC says they did. So now the AC has “no reason” in their parents eyes for estranging.

What i see, lot of times is that adult children just cut parents off with no discussion at all.
i also see a lot of adukt children who believe anyone who is a grandparent is in the wrong, and will go to great lengths to "prove" it.

They claim to be happy not to have parents in their lives, but make a beeline in order to have a go at other parents.

well we don't get a lot of AC who've estranged their parents on GN anotherGran.

Those that do post say they told their parents why and more often than not have been told they (the parents) have no recollection and of course we accept what they say; why wouldn't we.

By the same token there are EP's like me and Mr. S. who were estranged with no prior warning and no explanation given because it stands to reason doesn't it, that this can also be the case.

TBH I've never been able to understand why someone whose estranged their parents or whose parents in law have been estranged, saying they are happier and better off without them in their lives makes a beeline in order to have a go at other parents MissA .

MissAdventure

What i see, lot of times is that adult children just cut parents off with no discussion at all.
i also see a lot of adukt children who believe anyone who is a grandparent is in the wrong, and will go to great lengths to "prove" it.

They claim to be happy not to have parents in their lives, but make a beeline in order to have a go at other parents.

This - whatever the issue, trivial or large, ACs can never seem to just be honest and say why. 🙄

And, as for the so called ‘happy and healthy’ that have estranged their parents, well, they do spend a lot of time posting about their angst, which suggests they are neither happy or healed.🤷‍♀️

Anyone that have estranged anyone, told them why, and the walked away, then needs to just get on with life, and not live on perceived ‘victimhood’.

A happy life is the best ‘revenge’. 😉

It is, I'm sure.
I've even seen people return in a variety of usernames, just to have a go at estranged parents.
Imagine that!!

I've noticed many people have a "heroes all" attitude towards parents. That all, or most parents are "heroes" - good and loving parents. I think the assumption that most parents are "good" is unfortunately likely not the case. For example, this article about teens in the US says that only 58.5% of teens always or usually have their emotional/social needs met, however 93.1% of parents say their teens' emotional/social needs are met: www.apa.org/monitor/2025/04-05/teen-social-emotional-support

It seems to me that since over the past few decades corporal punishment/physical abuse has become less socially acceptable (for good reason in my opinion as research shows it's ineffective and harmful long term) more focus has gone to emotional abuse/neglect. I suspect that since many older people were raised when physical and emotional abuse were more normalized, they may feel that since they weren't physically abusive like their parents were, their children complaining about emotional needs is unfair since they dealt with it as kids, so their children just need to "toughen up" or "get over it." Thus, generational trauma is passed down.

However, emotional abuse is in fact physical abuse, especially to children. It alters the way a growing brain develops and can even cause brain damage over time. Some people think emotional abuse is worse than traditional physical abuse because emotional abuse is much harder to identify, prove, and heal from. Another study says that about 36% of adults report experiencing childhood emotional abuse. The actual percentage could be higher or lower.
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7589986/

With this in mind, I'd hazard a guess that around 1/3 of parents emotionally abuse/neglect their children, and most probably are not aware of it. And that is just one kind of abuse children might face. Parents also don't necessarily have to be abusive to not meet their child's needs as well.

As science reveals more understanding of childhood development, it might seem like the bar for "good" parenting is constantly rising. Isn't that a good thing though? Don't we want higher standards for the treatment of the most vulnerable? I suppose my point is it seems to me that a lot of the conflict between some EPs and ECs is rooted in issues stemming from emotional abuse/neglect. I'm not accusing any poster of anything, just pointing out some facts and how different generations view emotional wellbeing.

So the parents of teens are most likely in their 40s, I reckon.
There or thereabouts

Yeah I'm thinking it's a societal/cultural thing more than a generational thing but I'm trying to learn more.

around 1/3 of parents emotionally abuse/neglect their children

OK. And by the same token, would you say that 1/3 of children emotionally abuse / neglect their parents? It really all depends on what you define as "emotional abuse". And in case you think that child-to-parent abuse isn't a thing...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11370202/

No, I wouldn't say that, and the article you posted doesn't say that either, it doesn't say what the rate of children harming their parents is and it has a lot of limitations such as small sample sizes. I'm also not sure what relevance the article has to estrangement. I think it goes without saying that adults harm children at much higher rates than children harm adults. Why would the rate of harm parents cause their children be equal when parents have all the power over their children?

Why would the rate of harm parents cause their children be equal when parents have all the power over their children?

Again, it all depends on what you mean by "harm", what you mean by "children" and what you mean by "power". Estranged adult children do enormous emotional harm to their parents, by the fact of the estrangement itself, and by some of the abusive behaviours subsequently perpetrated by the children. Example: getting their parents to repeatedly apologise to them by text and then screenshotting the apologies and posting them on social media for the purpose of entertainment and humiliation - regrettably a common sight on Reddit. These actions are justified by slogans such as "We didn't ask to be born, therefore we don't owe our parents anything" which are common currency on estranged children's forums. By any definition, this is emotional abuse.

Discussion about emotional abuse almost always focuses on actions by the parents, hardly ever on actions by the children. I'm simply trying to redress the balance.

Parents don't have all the power over their children when they become adults and as estrangement between parents and their children only occurs when the children are adults, this is of course relevant.

The article DogWhisper posted is about children, under 18. That is not relevant to estrangement outside of perhaps instances when the children grow up to become murderers or something. The behavior of estranged children described on reddit isn't emotional abuse unless it's intentionally being shared with the parents involved. "Harm," "children," and "power" all have established definitions.