I feel a complete failure

I agree with VS - pointing out how many fathers there are in the picture is not needed.

It could be interpreted as judgmental.

Boundaries are key here - the OP has the right to hers as well.

Violet and Hithere if you don’t think this dysfunctional family with multi parents are a concern, I don’t what us, of course it’s relevant, they are a selfish pair. Children’s constant are these grandparents. It’s no good debating it, we just have just different values. I would hate to have been a child shuffled between different people, another child on the way when neither work and can’t manage what they have. Let them manage their family and I wonder how long it will be before they need the help they spurn,

Or, the other option is that a family comes together, sets boundaries, respects each others boundaries, doesn't stand in judgement over each other, doesn't take each other for granted.... and we have a healthy family dynamic that doesn't result in estrangement...

By meeting somewhere in the middle instead of playing the blame game..

Estrangement avoided

Which boundaries do you recommend should be in place on either side to improve things for, in particular, the little boy with cerebral palsy who is being bullied and excluded by members of his family, VioletSky and Hithere?

The ones the family come up with together in order to improve the relationship Delia

If the children do not seem to cope well with the big mix of parents and other sibblings- then caring grand-parents, seeing the kids disturbed or troubled, will worry that this is a concern.
There is no indication that OP has commented to that effect to son.

And it sounds to me like the grand-parents are being asked to make all the concessions, walking on the eggs, and being 'judged' for not obeying rules. Is being 'judgemental' only wrong when it is the grand-parent, and for all the right reasons and concerns?

VioletSky

The ones the family come up with together in order to improve the relationship Delia

What if the son does not want to, or other adults?

Why do you think the grand-parents are automatically at fault?

The problem is that the son and DIL aren't here to advise Fleur

So I can only advise the OP on how to proceed.. which isn't one sided

But I do feel that a lot of the comments on this sort of thread go further than empathy and into the realm of making the situation more one sided than it needs to be

Anyway I'll leave it there because I'm tired of these threads becoming unprodictive side taking and arguing

doesn't take each other for granted like the son's being doing with his parents, 'borrowing' money that isn't repaid, a taxi service and providing school uniforms and paying for school trips for example.

doesn't stand in judgement over each other so the GP's are stopped from having their GC for sleepovers because the son doesn't think they're following his rules, even though they are.

a healthy family dynamic where the father's partner wont eat any food that his son with cerebral palsy and epilepsy who drools prepares. A family whose members say in the child's hearing things what will at best knock if not erode any self confidence he may have.

Children being moved on a regular basis between two 'homes', spending just a few days at each; not much in the way of stability there.

^Is being 'judgemental' only wrong when it is the grand-parent, and for all the right reasons and concerns^; often looks that way Fleurpepper.

VS, TGB wrote 'He won't talk with us, it is always demands. '

so yes, perhaps this is not the reality, or is being distorted. And what if it is not. Are grand-parents always the ones who have to crawl and beg. Seems to me OP has done way way over and above what any grand-parent can be expected to do.

What else is there Fleur?

You either find a way to communicate healthily which means, you have all your ducks in a row, so you ensure you aren't saying things that will worsen the situation, like being judgemental of others lifestyle...

Or stay estranged as things stand

For me personally, I have to be sure I have tried and done things the right way, which includes apologising for times I perhaps let emotion get the better of me or said and did anything unfair

If you don't do that, estrangement will leave you in limbo where you just can't move on because no matter how hard you work to keep up the anger and blame, underneath the shame rots you

I wonder if it were the son or his partner who started this thread saying why they'd stopped the children from having sleepovers with their GP's, if their OP would be regarded as maybe not being real or distorted.

Are grand-parents always the ones who have to crawl and beg. Maybe not always Fleurpepper but it's often the case.

Smileless I think it's funny that you quoted me as if what I was saying did not already apply to the OP actually setting much needed boundaries for themselves with the other family members

Once again, I'm not taking sides here

OP would like to see their grandchildren and I'd also like that for them

The only way to achieve a good relationship with the grandchildren is to have a good relationship with the parents

Of course, that is a given. But how do you do that if one side refuses to talk, just make more and more demands, and one side has to just take it and crawl? And be told, as we have read her so often, and as some of our friends have been told 'if you don't do exactly what we ORDER, you won't see you grand-children ever again. Hos do you calmly and sensibly find a compromise there?

Thank you again.

We still don't know what to do. Probably best if we hold off for a few weeks (we are actually going away for a few days next week) and then see what happens. We actually saw DGS2 today going past our house, he burst into tears, so did I.

I simply quoted you VS.

The only way to achieve a good relationship with the grandchildren is to have a good relationship with the parents and the only way to achieve that, is if the parents want a good or any relationship for that matter, with the GP's.

Always making demands is not a foundation for any relationship, nor is reducing or taking away all contact with GC if you don't get your own way.

Fleur

I'm estranged

If people treat me awfully and cannot compromise with me to form a healthy relationship I estrange them

Yes that means losing some family members but it also saves your mental health for those you do have good relationships with

However, first, you take steps to ensure you have tried and have nothing to change about yourself

That's so sad TGB he must be upset if going past your house reduced him to tears.

I think leaving things for a few weeks is a good idea. Maybe a week or two without your support will make your son think again.

But the GP's did more than compromise VS. GM stopped the bed time stories and singing when their GS went to bed at 7.30, and just because they told dad that he took sometime to go to sleep, there was a row and now they can't see him.

Not sure how this is beneficial to the boy's mental health especially as the OP has just posted how simply walking past their house reduced him to tears!!!

If there are serious concerns for the children's welfare then you report them

If the family need support social services can provide it

That will likely destroy the relationship for good but anyone with genuine concern should be doing the right thing

The OP and his wife were doing the right thing VS.

I've given my advice, it's for OP

Thank you

This is such a sad situation. Who can the OP turn to for help and advice without risking things going much further than he wants them to, bearing in mind the alleged treatment of the younger of the two grandchildren.

I can see no evidence that the grandparents have been intransigent or uncooperative, so what more can they do to compromise in this situation? If there has been behaviour deserving estrangement, I can’t see that it has been by the grandparents.

Who can they turn to for impartial and non-interventionist (at this stage) advice? The row took place only yesterday, so feelings are raw, perhaps a break from things will bring about a change for the better, or at least a chance to think things over calmly.

VS, I am sorry things did ot work out for you and your mother. Mother-daughter relationships can be very difficult- and 'blame' can come from either side, or both sides.

In this case, it seems to be that Gparents have gone way beyond what can be expected. Yes, we only see one side here- and the son may well have a different take on the reality. But sorry, if he refuses to get together and talk, then he has lost the argument already. And nver mind grand-parents- OK- but what about the children/GCs, who are the real and most important victims here.

Just because parents (GPs) are the parents, once children are adults- does not mean they are to blame, or are the only ones who have to apologise, make amends, walk on those eggs constantly, crawl and beg - or else.

Fleur

I'm sorry but I don't know why you are saying all this to me

OP wants to see their grandchildren, I'm just trying to help them to either achieve that or move on without shame of it doesn't work

I don't agree with the judgement in the OP and I'm only pointing out that won't help now and won't have helped in the past.

It's up to OP if changing that is something they want to do

It's their life, I'm tired if arguing over people's lives

Just let others give their advice and the OP decide if that is something that resonates with them